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  • the spectrum of belief

    i've been reading a bit of "the god illusion," recently, by richard dawkins. depending on your specific religious leanings/world view, this may not even be applicable. i don't know.

    then again, it might also be interesting to discuss the results and/or differences between one another, shaolin concepts, etc.

    what category, if any, do you find yourself fitting into?

    one
    16
    strong theist. 100 per cent probability of god. in the words of c.g. jung, "i don't believe, i know.'
    6.25%
    1
    very high probability but short of 100 per cent. de facto theist. 'i can not know for certain, but i strongly believe in god and live my life on the assumption that he is there.'
    0.00%
    0
    higher than 50 per cent but not very high. technically agnostic but leaning towards theism. 'i am very uncertain, but i am inclinded to believe on god.'
    0.00%
    0
    exactly 50 per cent. completely impartial agnostic. 'god's existance and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.'
    25.00%
    4
    lower than 50 per cent but not very low. technically agnostic but learning towards atheist. 'i don't know whether god exists but i'm inclined to be sceptical.'
    12.50%
    2
    very low probability, but short of zero. de facto atheist. 'i cannot know for certain, but i think god is very improbable, and i live my life on the assumption that he is not there.'
    25.00%
    4
    strong atheist. 'i know there is no god, with the same conviction as jung 'knows' there is one.'
    31.25%
    5
    Last edited by onesp1ng; 11-01-2008, 07:12 PM.
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  • #2
    OK, this is going to be interesting
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

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    • #3
      i believe in god but maybe not the same way as others. im not religious, i dont agree with alot the bible says, and theres actually alot of proof that the bible is just wrong, specifically the old testament, the role of the jews, egypt, judaism, the bloodlines and other more important aspects that really form the foundation of christianity.

      but i do believe in a "heavenly father" so to speak, male or female dont really play a role imo..maybe im wrong i dunno but i dont think so, i know i talk to the lord everday, and i make a point of that.

      the reason i believe is because, mainly..i mean, i know saying this sounds wierd, but then again maybe it is wierd, but everything ive asked for in good faith..ive recieved, people might not believe me, but whatever. but then again i never asked for a million dollars lol or anything else outrageous. but that isnt to say the things ive recieved were neccesarily "normal"

      on the subject of chan and its philosophys well i cant say atm cause i want to go to sleep, i have to work in a few hours and i could use an hour or two seeing as how i only got a couple hours so far.
      "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Maestro View Post
        i believe in god but maybe not the same way as others. im not religious, i dont agree with alot the bible says, and theres actually alot of proof that the bible is just wrong, specifically the old testament, the role of the jews, egypt, judaism, the bloodlines and other more important aspects that really form the foundation of christianity.
        Care to elaborate on that some more? This is actually a topic that I find great interest in, and have tried to do some reading about.
        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

        (more comments in my User Profile)
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        • #5
          the role of the jews historically wasnt one of enslavement, infact the "jews" or hyksos as the egyptians called them were given titles, fought as mercenarys, built stuff obviously, and intermarried with egyptian hierarchy

          i dont have time to go into this atm but later i will i gotta work soon and my comp is running low on battery.

          but also the way egypt is depicted obviously is much different then the reality.

          judaism has its roots in the kabbahla and the torah. many of the same aspects believed even in modern day judaism come straight from ancient egyptian worship of amen amun amon or whatever u want to call him, there is alot to be learned and researched regarding that.

          the bloodlines..i dont have time to go into, but are pretty much the key to alot of the bs in the old testament and the new testament

          look at the story of thutmose III and MOSES of the bible

          i gotta go! ill post tommorow
          "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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          • #6
            there is one habit in philosophi is to define the words we use before discussing them

            bi God a lot of people will have different meanings, so it s not easi to answer ur question

            i believe a lot in misticism and telepathi, in the greek sense meaning transmission/tele of feeling/pathos, but i find it illogical to imagine an all powerful god that would create suffering, illness, earthquakes, tsunamis

            so i realli dont know what i believe

            maibe in in / iang, 2 forces one of harmoni another of destruction
            i dont necesarli believe in the realivi of the buddha but mi feeling is also close of buddhism
            or certain forms of hinduism
            or ancient greek belief in an architect that puts order in Kaos

            doesnt mean also contradicts islam or christian

            as mi wife is pregnant i reflect on what is is to be father
            the father does not absolutli create the son, but he does in a relative wai
            so maibe christian is not about an absolute father but a relative one
            isnt Jesus supposed to have sai I m the son of Man?

            and i think Allah in islam as different meanings according to the context
            sometimes it might meen Virtue
            sometiemes it might include the totaliti and also kaos

            dunno


            Peace and love

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            • #7
              ok, i'll define the words in use.

              theist: one who believes in the existence of a god, the creater, as a personal god who's continuosly present throughout life and decides, ultimately, whether or not a person ascends heaven after death or lives in eternal hell.

              deist: a person with a belief in a god who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.

              agnostic: a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable.

              atheist: one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings.

              richard dawkins (in 'the god delusion,' not illusion..lol), it seems, was specifically talking more or less about the abrahamic religions. but this categorization system can also represent and include other polytheistic and monotheistic beliefs as well, like zoroastrianism and/or hinduism, i would think, since they too deal with the existence of supernatural, "independent" deities.

              although there may be interesting overtones and ironies by comparison, pantheism (the notion that everything is of an all-encompassing immanent abstract god; or that the universe, or nature, and god are equivalent), however, should probably be excluded (if not to just minimize confusion). and, as debatable as it may sound, other religions, 'such as buddhism and confucianism,' dawkins says, shouldn't be concerned with either because they're often thought of as 'ethical systems or philosophies of life,' not strickly religions, per say.

              -------

              hey congrats on the baby, liu!
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              • #8
                doc, what do u know about the things i talked about? because personally i havent been able to do as much research as id like beyond the general internet research. but, youd be surprised how much u can find out and put together, even on the surface alot of things come together
                "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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                • #9
                  i think ur definitions r not veri clear

                  u can be a creator like a painter creates a painting
                  it is not the same as god creating the universe out of nothing

                  hinduism has different tipes of belief
                  for instance Siva can be said not to create the universe, who is his wife, Shakti
                  but other hinduists will have different beliefs closer to classical monotheism

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                  • #10
                    also some schools of buddhism believe in adi buddha, the primordial buddha, who is a creator of the world

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                    • #11
                      Dogchow, would u care to elaborate more about ur experience with some higher reality?

                      Peace and love

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                      • #12
                        those are the categories listed in the book. like i said, dawkins was pointing toward what he terms the 'abrahamic religions,' particularly christianity, judaism, and islam. however, it the definition of 'theism' can also include other monotheistic and polytheistic religions since they deal with divine celestial entities that have "independent" powers of their own as well.

                        hinduism has "beliefs spanning monotheism, polytheism, panentheism, pantheism, monism, and atheism," so it would have to depend on the specific sect. from my understanding, non-dualist schools, for example, don't necessarily support the notion of there being supernatural entities in the universe that are independently able to perform tasks, grant wishes, etc. they're more about the reconciliation that atman and brahman are identical, and therefore (it) probably doesn't fit the 'theist' definition being referenced here. on the other hand, if it's a form of hinduism, like some dualist schools - that 'understand brahman as a supreme being who possesses personality, and they worship him or her thus, as vishnu, brahma, bhiva, or bhakti'- then it would be 'theistic' in this sense and fit within the definition.

                        that's the best i can do, but you're always welcome to ask questions before voting or help to define things better if you feel it'll be helpful.
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                        • #13
                          i see but in his definition of god as a creator does it imply absolute creation from nothing or like a father creates a child/sculptor creates a sculpture?
                          Last edited by liutangsanzang; 11-02-2008, 05:38 PM.

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                          • #14
                            I've done some reading on the origins of religion. Kind of got bored in the 2000 BC era, all based in Africa. I'll have to get back on that this winter, as I find this whole religion belief stuff kind of fascinating.
                            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                            (more comments in my User Profile)
                            russbo.com


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                            • #15
                              it implies absolute creation, but it may also imply that within one's specific belief system a god/deity exists as an independent entity that's not bound by 'the laws of nature' as we know them. whether thought of as 'the creator' or not, what we're talking about here are supernatural beings - beings that can read our thoughts, grant wishes, time travel, punish, kill, save, and so on - not necessarily those that represent human traits and/or characteristics.

                              as for whether or not the "theist" definition applies to your question of how "a father creates a child/sculptor creates a sculpture," can you share some examples of religous affiliations whereby this is the case?
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