Finally Joined Guolin's school

[Premier]

I'll be going to Li Peng's tournament. It's not that far from where I live. Looking forward to that.

[shaolinstylee]

I can't make it as of now, I'd prob. just watch anyway, but I'd like to make it there.

From the different monks I've met (not many of them) they all seem to like different things like, well, anyone else in the world. Some like to do things different I guess, and sometimes it would leave a different taste in someones mouth that has trained with a different monk.

[mortal]

Just remember having the best style or being the best monk does not make someone the best teacher.

[arhat]

I'm not belittling Guolin at ALL.

He's just not for me. Just like Church. There was a time when there was a priest at my church who was hellfire and brimstone, a real bible thumper. I did not react well with a lot of what he said and he tended to turn to the literal. So I went to a different church for a while. This may seem like a judgement call but it is not one which says one is good or one is bad. Some people may need a bible thumper.

Guolin has had several masters. No big deal. Many monks travel from temple to temple. When Yan Si and Yan Ming came to NYC he took discipleship under Yan Chang in an upstate NY temple, then discipleship back to YX- that discipleship ceremony caused a lot of confusion in the early NYC Shaolin rumor mill. Both YM and YS were attacked to have only been 'disciples' from Shaolin, or not even disciples at all just area students from wushu schools- understandable since they were the only monks on thier tour and the others were just that, students and disciples- so people thought they were just teachers or students until they went to Yan Chang, and were not ordained monks because of that, which was not true. YM remained loyal to his Ch'an master and as I mentioned Guolin had a few. I don't know where in the 5 stages of vows they were, if they were he shang or just wu seng and to me it doesn't matter, but people read that discipleship ceremony as if that was their 2nd step out of the 5. All three monks in NYC were going to open one big temple if you recall and that did not pan out for reasons that I think are what you call, of the stay in the fam variety. I know the roles a few of them played in that and let's just say that was another reason why I wound up where I did. I just wanted someone who grew up and trained with the old monks of the temple and for me Guolin was not that monk. I knew he had come later in life, I mean if you can call mid teens later in life, lol, but it seemed to me from talking with him that his Buddhism carried a different flavor if you will, from what I had learned about Buddhism as it was purported to be in Shaolin. At the time, you have to remember many Buddhists frowned upon Shaolin for it's unorthodoxy. I always felt that Shaolin was Shaolin, and should stand on it's own, it doesn't need to be 'taught' anything about Buddhism from outside, or justified to anything but itself, but due to politics, now monks have to be trained initially at the Beijing Buddhist college, and Doc wrote a lot about that and it's sort of messed up.

I just think the political sides that are drawn create unfortunate opportunities, let's say, to point out beams and motes depending on your allegiance. Since I can't agree with YX, I don't think I would train under one of his disciples...in general. I think the stuff going on with DeMasco and Co. just flat out stinks. But I realize that many monks have subverted 1500 years of history, become his disciples and toe the line, because they don't want to wind up in special rooms. De Yang for instance is in a real ****ing tough spot. But he won't ever become YX's disciple and there are a lot of monks that won't either. Most of them have left but that is probably one major reason why they don't all get along.

What really made me study elsewhere was that I had already been through a very disciplined orthodoxy and did not feel that orthodoxy in the face of things like scientific fact, or orthodoxy for the sake of orthodoxy, was transcendental...I wanted to find people who had gone through similar experiences and who had seen certain sign posts the way I did.

But I think that for many people, Guolin is a very good way to experience a certain side of Shaolin.

[shaolinstylee]

Good post Arhat. That is somewhere in the realm of what I was getting out of your previous posts.

[doc]

Both YM and YS were attacked to have only been 'disciples' from Shaolin, or not even disciples at all just area students from wushu schools- understandable since they were the only monks on thier tour and the others were just that, students and disciples

Interesting comment, "since they were the only monks on their tour..."

Just wondering where you got that piece of information.

[arhat]

I think Yan Chang or Guolin said it. Yeah...I think it was Guolin who told Gene that, now that I think about it. It was in an interview, he said the only ordained monks on the 91 tour were him and YM.

[doc]

Interesting.

Do you think Guolin would make that statement, if he ever did (Gene hesitates to confirm it), now?

[arhat]

I don't see why he wouldn't...

...unless YX is strongarming some revisionism...which wouldn't shock me...here's the article Gene wrote. Some good stuff about Ch'an and gong fu.

A Diamond of the Fruitful Forest



Shaolin Temple Overseas and Monk Shi Guolin
by Gene Ching



Who looks my form
Who listens my sound
Is perverted on the path
And cannot perceive the Tathagata.
-The Diamond Sutra: verse 26

Buddhism and martial arts are one. If you find this paradoxical, it is only your preconceptions that make it so. On the surface, the peaceful bliss associated with Buddhism seems incongruent to the art of killing. But the martial arts are not just about killing. And Buddhism penetrates all arts, including the martial ones. Consider the fact that the two most prominent founders of Buddhism, Buddha and Ta Mo (Bodhidharma), both arose from the warrior class. This unity of Buddhism and martial arts is the heart of Shaolin Temple, and perhaps the reason why Shaolin is so beloved and significant to Buddhists and warriors alike.

Today, the Shaolin Temple of China has an open door policy. Shaolin monks and masters are preaching the gospel of Buddhism and kungfu to the whole world now via demonstration tours, VCDs and videos. Leading the brotherhood is New York's Shaolin monk Shi Guolin. He has disseminated his teachings through his unprecedented twelve-volume video series (the most comprehensive so far) and just recently, has opened the largest official Shaolin Temple overseas yet (see this issue.) Due to Shaolin's notoriety as the cradle of martial arts, most people only focus upon the kungfu. Shi Guolin hopes that through the practice of Shaolin kungfu, his followers come to understand the ultimate source of enlightenment, Buddhism.

What is called Buddhadharma is everything that is not Buddhadharma.
-The Diamond Sutra: verse 8

Behind every Shaolin monk is unique life story. Shi Guolin's personal journey is heroic with the promise of even greater things to come. He was born into a martial family in Henan in 1965. He has a strong heritage of Shaolin kungfu from his mother's side and began his martial training under his family at the age of seven. Guolin's family was Buddhist too, so he was raised vegetarian from childhood. However, as a youth, Guolin was troubled. He felt as if he were being watched by phantoms and was never comfortable practicing alone. He dreamed of being like the warriors of legend with such awesome kungfu skills that he could fly. At age 15, he decided to follow his dream and become a Buddhist monk.

Under the guidance of a Shaolin monk named Hua Lai, Guolin went to Suzhou in Jiangsu Province and became a monk at Yunmushan Temple (Cloud admiring temple.) As soon as he entered the temple, he was at peace. He had come home. At last, within the shelter of the Buddhist sanctuary, he felt comfortable and could practice freely. Once he "left the world" and entered monastic life, he had no desire to ever return. Still dreaming of flying, he practiced light skill kungfu in Suzhou and studied Chan Buddhism from Hua Lai.

One year later, he left Suzhou for Shaolin Temple. The 16-year-old initiate made this pilgrimage of over 300 miles across China by walking and begging. Buddhism espouses non-attachment so many Buddhists will take a vow of poverty. This is a traditional Buddhist practice called Kuxingseng (bitter walk monk.) Many monks will make such pilgrimages, with nothing more than their monk robes and the grace of Buddha to provide for them on their journey.

All teachings must be abandoned, how much more so all non-teachings.
-The Diamond Sutra: verse 26

Shi Guolin's initial stay at Shaolin Temple was brief. In 1982, on a freezing cold morning, he made the grievous error and overslept. His senior monk, Shi Yongxin caught him and had him expelled from Shaolin Temple for one year. Guolin found consolation in the Diamond Sutra (known in Sanskrit as the Vajrachchedika-prajnaparamita-sutra, "the diamond cutter of wisdom that reaches the other shore.") He dedicated himself to the study of this venerated Buddhist scripture. Even now, as he studies many other sutras, he is always sure to chant the Diamond Sutra at least once each day. Later, when Guolin returned to Shaolin Temple, he and Yongxin became good friends. They were kungfu brothers, learning from some of the older monks and each other. In fact, Guolin's maternal grandfather even taught Yongxin and was instrumental in introducing them.

Another significant event in Guolin's life occurred around 1982. He burned himself. Chinese Buddhists traditionally burned their foreheads with incense in a ritual known as Jie Bu. This practice was banned in China, but has slowly and subtly re-emerged amongst monastic circles. These burns symbolize a vow. Guolin vowed to penetrate one of Shaolin's deepest principles, Chan Quan Yi Ti (see sidebar) and spread this teaching all over the world. Since ritual burning was frowned upon, Guolin tried to burn himself secretly. For over an hour, he painstakingly burned on twelve points on his arm. He had to burn some of the points twice to make them bigger. Immediately after, his arm swelled up for several weeks (Guolin mentions that if you burn your head, it will swell up too.) He tried to hide it from his master, resting his painful arm by the side of his stomach, but was eventually discovered. Although he has kept his vow, his self-inflicted burns weren't quite right and he wound up burning a nerve. To this day, it still itches.

If you hold on to the idea that there is a dharma, you are caught in the notion of an ego, a self, a personality and a separated individuality. If you hold on to the idea that there is no dharma, you are caught in the notion of an ego, a self, a personality and a separated individuality.
-The Diamond Sutra: verse 6

In the following two years, the headmaster of Shaolin Temple, Shi Xingzhen was feeling the weight of his seven decades of hardship. Although Xingzhen was recognized as Shaolin's leader, his failing health limited his ability. By 1984, Shi Yongxin had already assumed many of the administrative duties. Xingzhen was officially inaugurated as Shaolin's 29th abbot in December of 1986, but he passed away in the following August. Meanwhile, Guolin had become a disciple of Yongxin. Although Guolin usually goes by his Buddhist name Guolin (fruitful forest) Yongxin gave him the Shaolin generation name Yansi. Yan designates him as 34th generation; si means "inherit" or "heir." Yongxin has accepted many disciples, but Guolin became very special. In 1985, Yongxin appointed Guolin as his Dharma heir. Over a lifetime, a Buddhist master may designate several Dharma heirs, but at this time, Guolin is the only one under Yongxin. In August of last year, Venerable Shi Yongxin was inaugurated as the 30th abbot of Shaolin Temple. This means that since Guolin is Yongxin's sole Dharma heir, Guolin is the only candidate for abbacy. If something, Lord forbid, were to happen to Shi Yongxin, it would be Shi Guolin's Dharma to return to Shaolin Temple and assume abbacy.

If an arhat gives rise to the thought that he has attained arhatship he is still caught in the notion of an ego, a self, a personality and a separated individuality.
-The Diamond Sutra: verse 9

In 1988, the Chinese government erected the Shaolin Wushuguan. This facility was designed to disseminate Shaolin kungfu to the public. It remains the world's largest martial arts training complex. Upon opening, the government requested that the Shaolin monks teach at the Wushuguan and Guolin was one of the first monks to respond. In due course, he was asked to teach full time, but he declined. He told them, "Shaolin Temple is my home." Before this governmental support, Shaolin Temple was in a bad state of disrepair. Opening the Wushuguan was one part of the government's program to increase tourism and finance the restoration Shaolin, but Guolin is careful to point out that Shaolin Temple and the Shaolin Wushuguan are separate entities. Some of the monks have taught there, Guolin included, but now most of the instructors are no longer monks, just martial arts masters and layman disciples.

From 1989 to 1991, Shi Guolin earned the highest level award at China's National Shaolin Kungfu Festival and served as head instructor of the kungfu monks. He was dubbed the "Iron Arhat" due to his phenomenal Iron Shirt Qigong and declared as a "Shaolin Hero," a title reserved for Shaolin's finest. Aside from participating in a few demonstration tours to Thailand and Japan, he never left Shaolin. The temple has always been where he felt most at home. Then, in 1992, he went on the first official Shaolin Monk tour to the United States. That tour finished in San Francisco in June. There, Shi Guolin defected.

Yet when innumerable, immeasurable and infinite numbers of beings have been liberated, no being has been liberated. Why is this? Because no real bodhisattva cherishes the idea of an ego entity, a personality, a being or a separated individuality.
-The Diamond Sutra: verse 3

This pivotal tour consisted of seven members. Accompanying Shi Guolin was Shi Suyi, Shi Deqian, Shi Xingkong, Shi Xingmin and Shi Yanming. However, according to Guolin, only two were authentic Shaolin monks while the other five were sent under the auspices of the Chinese Government. "Some who come can't count as monk, only martial artists. Even though they shave their heads and wear robes, not all are real." Here lies the incense smoke and feng shui mirrors of Shaolin Temple and the heart of a brewing controversy. Beyond the fully indoctrinated monks, Shaolin is also comprised of laymen disciples (called su jia di za) and warrior monks (wu seng.) Laymen disciples and warrior monks do not necessarily take all ten Buddhist vows, so despite their loyalty to Shaolin, they are not full-fledged monks. It is worthy of note that among the non-monk performers in this troupe were two of the world's most prominent Shaolin masters - Suyi and Deqian. Suyi's secular name is Liang Yiquan and he is certified as one of the top ten masters in all of China. Deqian is Shaolin's most prolific modern scholar, having compiled over 50 works on Shaolin kungfu, including the monumental four-volume Shaolin encyclopedia. So despite not being full monks, the participation of these noted Shaolin masters made this troupe highly significant.

According to Guolin, only he and Yanming were fully ordained Shaolin monks on that fated tour. At the end of this tour, they both defected, but they went their separate ways. Guolin was in contact with a monk from Shaolin, the first one to immigrate to the United States, Shi Yancheng. Yancheng brought Guolin to New York. Once there, Guolin did not travel much more, preferring to stay in his newly found American-Chinese temple. He can count all his trips away from New York on one hand, and this includes three trips back to China. Despite illegally immigrating, he maintained strong connections in China that always assured his safe passage. He found an old Buddhist master in New York and continued his studies under him for two years. In 1994, he was ready to begin teaching again. By the next year, he had accumulated a few hundred students and decided the time was right to open his own temple. It was an auspicious moment, since it coincided with the 1500th anniversary of Shaolin Temple.

Buddhas are called Buddhas because they are free of ideas
-The Diamond Sutra: verse 14

Today, Shi Guolin adopts a jovial view of the world. He enjoys his freedom in the United States and finds the people (even New Yorkers) to be very kind. To him, this is a good place to spread Buddhism. And with the opening of his new temple in Flushing, he is well positioned to transmit Buddhism to an eager following. Guolin's new Shaolin temple is outstanding amongst all of the Shaolin temples that have spread across the globe in recent years. Since his master, Shi Yongxin, assumed abbacy, he has only recognized two official Shaolin Temples overseas. One is under Guolin and the other is under another of the abbot's disciples, Shi Yanzi in Great Britain. According to Guolin, his master has vested in him the authority to oversee more temples in the future and plans to send him more monks. Currently, Guolin is grooming his disciple Hengxin to be indoctrinated.

But beyond this responsibility, someday as Yongxin's Dharma Heir, his calling may be even greater. Will he be the 31st abbot of Shaolin? When asked, Shi Guolin replies with his characteristic cherubic smile. "My master is very young," he says softly. Perhaps when the time comes, Shi Yongxin will have appointed more Dharma Heirs and Shi Guolin can remain in America. Guolin is unattached to what his karma may present in the future. He is content to study the sutras, do Buddha's work and honor Shaolin. Wherever fate may take him, he will surely follow his calling.

All things in this fleeting world
are like a dream, a phantom, a drop of dew, a flash of lightening,
thus meditate upon them
thus observe them.
-The Diamond Sutra: verse 32





The Way of Shaolin -- Chan Quan Yi Ti
The Chinese language is rich with special proverbs called Chengyu. This is a special idiomatic phrase, typically limited to only four characters, which imparts profound wisdom. One of the most important Shaolin Chengyu is Chan Quan Yi Ti (literally Zen fist one body.) After Shi Guolin heard this Chengyu, he made a wish - that he would fully penetrate the meaning of Chan Quan Yi Ti and bring it to the world. He sealed his wish by ritually burning himself twelve times. Shi Guolin wants everyone to understand the real Shaolin kungfu. Many people believe that Shaolin is just a martial arts center and overlook the deep meaning of Chan Buddhism. Shaolin Temple is a Buddhist Temple, first and foremost.

According to Guolin, Chan Quan Yi Ti means "Buddhism and martial arts are one." Martial arts are used to practice Chan. It is a vehicle for Chan. This is a different approach to Buddhism and part of Shaolin's unique character. Although some followers dogmatically practice Buddhism, it is not necessarily a religion. In fact, Ta Mo preached against dogmatism, and this has been a fundamental tenet of the Chan/Zen schools. Buddhism is more akin to a philosophical approach to life.

There are many ways that this Chan philosophy may be expressed and practiced, particularly in the arts. Painting, music, sculpture, even esoteric practices such as flower arranging, may all be Chan. Shaolin Temple uses the martial art way. Chinese martial arts are deeply embedded in Chinese culture and basic to learning Chan. Chinese culture is used to show Chan.

A student asked an old monk, "What is Chan?"
"It is the name of your heart."
"What is your heart?"
"Heart is your Chan body."
Chan, or Zen, is you heart's name. Your heart is still your Chan. That's how to start, how to spread Chan. Shi Guolin spent so many years to understand this Chengyu. This is how he understands sutras. Everyday he thinks about what it is and uses it to deepen his understanding.





About Gene Ching :
The Venerable Shi Guolin and Shaolin Temple Overseas Headquarters can be contacted at: 132-11 41st Ave, Flushing, NY 11355; tel: (718) 359-1791; e-mail: guolin@juno.com; web: www.shaolin-overseas.org

[doc]

According to Guolin, only he and Yanming were fully ordained Shaolin monks on that fated tour.

But, they were friends back then.

Back then.

Again, I'd be curious as to whether or not Guolin would make that claim now. Then again, with the re-writing of Shaolin history now that Yongxin has the pen, I'd be interested in seeing how Shi De Qian and Shi Su Yi stand up, lol.

And Deqian was not a monk? I spoke to Deqian many times. He's told me much of the history of Shaolin, including how he got copies of the sacred texts that were destroyed in the 1928 fires. And also of some of the older monk masters from Shaolin that he was closely associated with. And Decheng has confirmed that Shi Su Yi had been a monk, for many years, before the 1991 tour. He confirms that Deqian is a highly respected monk of Shaolin, even though there has been a "regime" change.

Guolin's story reeks of bull**** man. And self-aggrandizement. In 1982, Yongxin, then a monk, threw Guolin out of the temple for sleeping late? Yongxin was what, 12 or 13 years old in 1982? And Guolin, who supposedly entered the temple in 1982, at the age of 16, had more "seniority" as a monk than Deqian, who, in 1982, was in his forties, and had spent at least the previous twenty years of his life in and around the sphere of Shaolin?

The only thing that makes sense is the comment of "smoke and mirrors". I've said it before. There's lots of bull**** involving Shaolin. Anyone can make any claim that they want, because, here in the US, you can't prove or disprove anything. That's one of the benefits some of these guys have. Re-writing history to suit their purposes is easy. Few can discover the real truth.

You get the correct historical information when you go to Shaolin, get friendly with the people who have been in the place for years, engage their trust, and talk to them. You'd be surprised at some of the things I've heard over the years.

Aside from participating in a few demonstration tours to Thailand and Japan, he never left Shaolin. The temple has always been where he felt most at home. Then, in 1992, he went on the first official Shaolin Monk tour to the United States. That tour finished in San Francisco in June. There, Shi Guolin defected.

That makes a lot of sense. For some reason, I just find this humorous.

Guolin is a fully ordained Shaolin monk. He's been through all the vows, no question about it. Nor is there any question of his knowledge of real traditional Shaolin martial arts. But I'd be careful about the other comments.

Real careful. And go back through this article, knowing that Shi Yong Xin, now in 2004. is 36 years old.

[arhat]

oh yeah...

...there's definitely some stuff that needs sorting...this article, I forget where it sits exactly in the time frame, but this may have been an initial stab at the rewriting- divorcing those who could mount challenges to YX from their heritage, maybe they weren't sure at the time which way YM would swing- these days you don't hear much about G's ambassador status now that Demasco's cash infusion has been making it's way back 'home.' You certainly don't hear much about the dharma heir stuff either. I have no illusions about the article. I'm certainly not in the camp who cares about judging these guys real or fake, for the most part anyway. I probably was a little sloppy when I wrote that bit about them catching all the flack when G gui yi fo'd with YC. And, well...I was tryin' not to be neg towards G but well...The problem is, you put one disciple or student in there and call him a monk and people catch wind of it, everybody gets painted with the same brush. Would he say that now? I don't think G and YM were really friends in the way that they would look out for each other in the press back then, so yeah it's a curious statement, that was written after the 3 of the NYC guys split up, went their separate ways, and that split wasn't exactly amicable, there's no mention of them defecting together when they touch upon that part, no mention of them trying to start up a temple together or spending time all three of them in Pike st temple, and the third guy leaving from the tour as well... Still, who knows what the **** he would say these days, I'm sure there's quite a bit he has to say about DemASSco and troupe that's also bull****. It's all a familiar tune that shifts depending on who you speak to, and sometimes I think more importantly, *when* you speak to them. Didn't Wan Heng dress a couple of guys down, and now he's on the out. I think he had to get help from some of those guys so I wonder what he'd say now about them. Nobody doubts his status except for YX's camp, and it's clear where Gene gets his bread buttered so to speak. I guess if I had to take a guess, G would probably call him out if pressed, because in the chess match WH's support, and protection, clearly demarcates a line in the sand to some- alot of guys probably look at WH as an 'example' and now G needs to protect the DeMassco cluster****...I mean taking WH in the way YM did...that definitely sends a message, especially since it's in a spot YX was interested in doing stuff- so any monks other than YX's in the states is potentially damaging to their revenue stream. I mean, whether these guys know it or not (and YM does not care about Demasco) that is definitely part of the USSD marketing platform. The hard sell I got when I went into their studio was very enlightening. When I mentioned, eventually, where I trained, the guy shifted into hard sell mode. "Oh you should train here, you'd really like it..." and things like that, insinuating *HE* had Shaolin as opposed to what I was doing. "Why do you want to go all the way into the city, you can train authentic Shaolin here..." words to that effect anyway. I was like, buddy, are you ****ing joking me? I was born, but not yesterday. Maybe at the time of that article YX thought YM would start paying him coin, lol...I'd have to make my head hurt and try and remember if that was when YC went back to China after his disciples went haywire...maybe they were trying to get YM back into the fold, wouldn't be the first time YX tried to get him, politically OR forcefully. What would he say now...I dunno, interesting question. I look at G as an extension of YX. In the Times Asia piece YX had plenty of chances to slam YM...I know he told the monks noone was to come to recieve him when he came back on that visit. Fat lot of good that did him, but only Suxi and his camp had the sack to sit with us- who could blame them, only Su Xi could do it and not face repercussions. I would imagine G would express displeasure at YM's life choices, lol...but if he slams him, he'd have to start slamming YX and half YXs disciples. When the reporter pressed YX, he just said something like, I prefer not to discuss YM. Whatever that means.

I think at some point in time it was explained to me G could get away with some of the stuff he said, the self aggrandizement stuff at the expense of some of the older guys on that tour like DQ, because De Qian was no longer living at the temple *at the time* of the tour. I think someone told me he was off doing his school thing and research and started taking flack from some...don't forget G was orthodox *before* he got to Shaolin, so to him, half these guys probably are dismissable. He must have one serious set of blinders on to pass on YX, lol...

I think Guolin sort of has, um...an "infuriating skill," as I like to call it...

I mean I'm sure I told you about the sit down between YM, G, and YC...it's obvious whose ass he's holding now, and some major rewriting stuff would have to take place to make G YX's dharma heir, don't you think?

[doc]

Well, a few things need to be remembered.

One, it's a magazine article. And we all know what that means.

Two, if necessary, we need to discuss the whole concept of wuseng at the wushu guan back in 1991.

Three, and probably more relevant now, is where Guolin sits in all of this. You bring up a good point, and that is, this whole concept of dharma heir (interesting age that took place at), and the newfound importance of finances.

I wonder how Guolin feels about his new "competition" for "love"....

[arhat]

well between you me and the wall...

...I would imagine it must be rather tough for him to take, being usurped as it were.

I wouldn't be happy about it, but what can he do, his bed is made.

[Premier]

Wow 2nd day of training at Guolin's and I learned some Lohanquan form. Interesting.....

[onefocus]

all of the "smoke and mirrors" make a person want to just study kung fu, and leave the rest behind.

every org., has a pecking order, and if you are a member, from time to time you can expect to be pecked. I say let them fight it out, and the winner is the new " undisputed heavyweight abbot of the world !!! ". LLLLets get ready to eggrolllll.

peace


onefocus