Several Things on Shaolin Gongfu...

[Sir Didymus]

Hey, I love kicking. I can do it too. And in fact Gong Fu has more kicks than TKD. And even more effective. TKD can't even kick low besides a low side kick. Gong Fu can put a kick anywhere I want. From head to toe. From any direction. TKD people do some stupid ass things like roundhouse with left leg then jump and roundhouse with the other leg. Why the hell would you turn your body one way. Then have to turn all the way over the other way to do another kick. That's a dumbass combo. Anyway, help me find the TKD champ and I'll challenge him. No problem. Let's see what happens.

[mortal]

Me too! Anyday! I practiced that stuff when I was 11. What a waste. lo

[zachsan]

baojian, either you're not understanding my point or you sincerely believe that your style is the one and only best in the world, i'm not sure which one.

you're talking about all these things that TKD can and can't do. TKD can't do anything, it's not a person. it's a method for training. a TKD practitioner can do anything he or she pleases. techniques are always modified slightly in fights according to the situation. if the TKD champion of the world wants to kick you in the leg, guess what, he's gonna kick you in the leg.

you proceed to break down certain TKD techniques and talk about why they're ineffective. this doesn't prove anything, man. you obviously have a very clear idea of what should and should not be used in combat. you're comparing their ideas about this subject to your own ideas about this subject, assuming that your own ideas are gospel. all you're really saying is "their philosophy is different from my philosophy".

as far as you taking out the TKD champion of the world, well. confidence is a good thing, but this kind of confidence is born out of inexperience. you need to start testing yourself in earnest to find out your own limits.

- zach

[Sir Didymus]

Actually I never practiced TKD. But I was told by the teacher that I could learn all the forms and test for black belt in less than a year. Since I could learn all the forms in less than a month. But still have to wait a year anyway. I thought, hey that's nice. I can get black belts in TKD and open my own school for that. But then I thought, wait, don't get my head into that. It will only hurt my technique. And I am much to loyal to Gong Fu. Teaching Gong Fu is much more pleasurable than TKD anyway. Cuz most people doing TKD in USA don't really want to work hard. Just come in and practice some kicks. Gong Fu we train to actually be fighters. I could never train the TKD students like I do Gong Fu. They couldn't take it. I guess TKD masters from Korea or wherever must have worked hard at it. But still, it's not really complete at all. For me to fight the TKD champ of the world would be like having an English speaking contest with a one year learner of english.

[Sir Didymus]

I said the only low kick they have is low sidekick. Sure they could kick someone in the leg with a roundhouse or something. But I mean they have no real sweeps or inside sole kick. It's really limited. My confidence is from experience and not inexperience. I have fought people from many styles. And I have taught people from many styles. So in my experience, I'm really not too worried about a TKD champ. And if I talk all this I should be willing to take on that fight. I'd make the challenge if I knew where to do it.

[zachsan]

baojian, that is a ludicrous statement and you should be smart enough to know it.

there will always be "get your black belt in five easy steps" schools of every style that involves belts at all, and as far as gongfu is concerned, there are countless schools that promise to make you a true master of secret deadly arts in the same amount of time. these one-year black belts aren't what i'm talking about when i refer to TKD masters, because, well, they're not masters. but there are real masters. you don't get to be the TKD champion of the world by earning your black belt in one year. you get there through a lot of hard, hard work, an amount of work that almost none of us can afford to put into our gongfu training. these people train hours a day, seven days a week, for the sole purpose of becoming and staying the best.

you may have fought and trained students from many styles, but i can guarantee you that you have not looked hard enough to find a good enough opponent. perhaps you're very talented and skilled, and for that i congratulate you, but i have never seen a true master of any MA that simply dismisses entire styles in this way. because, once you've gotten to that point, you've lost many times, and lost badly. you have experience that teaches you respect for martial artists and their schools.

- zach

[Sir Didymus]

It was a TKD master that told me I could do that in one year. Cuz with Chinese kicking technique I can easily do every kick needed in TKD. And the forms are simple as hell. I could do their style better than his black belt students and I didn't even do the style. And I said sure the TKD champ must train really hard. But so do I. And I train a lot more things that will help me in a fight. I can do anything he can do and more. Not saying I can do it better. I don't know him. But with my style I can do whatever kick he can do. And I can do even more kicks than that kicking style. What's with that? If I hurt his leg what's he gonna do? Take me on in hands, wrestling or something? Don't be silly.

[Sir Didymus]

Sure I have respect for other Martial Arts in certain areas. TKD kicking isn't too bad. Just that Gong Fu has more kicks that TKD and that is a kicking style. That shouldn't happen. And TKD doesn't have any kicks that are different than basic kicks and variations of it. Just looking at TKD not compared to any other style. It's good for kicking. I can respect that. But it doesn't compare to others. And especially doesn't compare in a well rounded martial art. Which is needed in a real fight. With your legs hurt as a TKD guy, really, what are you gonna do? give up? Or learn some style that will help you in any situation?

[zachsan]

this is just ridiculous. i do not doubt that you train a lot. i do doubt that you train as much as the TKD champion of the world.

again, your theoretical arguments about "what if this" and "what if that" amount to comparing another philosophy against your own, and holding your own as the golden standard by which all others are measured. the number of kicks you have trained and the number of other techniques you have trained don't matter in TKD philosophy. they focus on a few simple kicks, and they do it intentionally. possessing a wide variety of counters and reactions to different situations is important to a gongfu philosophy, not a TKD one. does this make sense to you at all? are you even reading what i'm writing? i can't think of a way to say this any more clearly.

if i seem a little worked up about this subject, well, i am, and i don't even practice TKD. no offense, but honestly, as a martial artist, it just strikes me as incredibly ignorant that someone would so widely ridicule one of the most popular systems of martial arts in the world today. that's all.

[Sir Didymus]

I understand what you are saying. TKD is most popular cuz it's easy and simple. People take their families to go learn that. What if, what if.. that's kind of old. But still I haven't heard an answer. TKD uses a few simple techniques that are good. It's good to focus on them. Maybe they will work. But you need a backup. It's good against someone who isn't a martial artist or another TKD guy. But against someone who knows how to take on the style, they just won't get in the range that TKD depends on. Easier said than done, I know. But even in the range of the kick. If your defense is good enough you'll be able to block some kicks and hurt them. Now this is where I ask what if. If a TKD guy has a hurt leg what will he do? No answer? I know well he can't take me on in wrestling, punching, grappling.. any of that. So really what will he do? I love to kick. So it's kinda my main thing. I love to kick people. It feels good. (unless you kick a fat guy in the stomach with no shoes. I always wear shoes now) If my foot or leg is hurt or something. I can go on and still do pretty well in the fight without using my feet at all. Whether it be just punching, or wrestling, grappling, joint locking. I just think TKD is good for fighting it's own style or people who can't fight. Otherwise they would have come up with something to do if they can't kick. No plan B?

[Maestro]

look what i started..what are you guys argueing about anyway?

who cares about tkd!!

amitabha

[Sir Didymus]

NOT ME!

[mortal]

95% of the suppossed martial arts in this country suck. Especially tkd.

Zachsan

no offense man but sometimes you argue just for the sake of arguing. What would motivate you to defend a well known bull**** art you don't train in? lolo I know Hung gar is pretty much the same useless art. I guess that parrallel is what is making you so defensive. lol Just kidding about Hung gar. My warped humour. Alright it isn't totally useless. lo

[zachsan]

baojian -

you're not getting me, and i'm getting tired of repeating myself. it's part of gongfu tradition and philosophy to prepare for all kinds of possible situations, not TKD. in TKD, they're not very concerned with "what if" scenarios. their philosophy is, stick to the basics (in their case, kicks), and learn how to do them very well. all of the time that you and i spend in gongfu preparing for various possibilities in a fight, they spend doing the same kicks, over and over again. they see this as the most surefire way to win a fight. that's just their philosophy. it's not yours, but that hardly makes it wrong, as i'm sure you would discover were you to fight, say, the TKD champion of the world.

i used to train in a style called tang soo do, as a little kid. it's korean, like TKD, and has a lot of similarities, only it doesn't focus on kicks quite as much, and doesn't focus on competition nearly as much. but the point is, we did a lot of kicking, way more than i practice now in hung gar. so, as a little kid, i got really, really good at delivering a fast kick - many, in fact - without losing my balance and while delivering plenty of power. this particular skill stuck with me long after i stopped training in the style.

later on, in high school, i took american kenpo. as soon as i got my yellow belt, i strapped on my sparring gear and got to the fun stuff, because that was the policy at the particular school i trained with. now i didn't completely suck with my hands, partly because i had trained strikes a bit in tang soo do, and mostly because of natural talent. but i very rarely got the chance to use them.

i would never spar the way you're supposed to, i would always go full-force or close to it (a personality trait that got me effectively banned from sparring for the rest of my training at that school). so i would do what i did best, that is, hard and fast kicks. having long legs, that kept just about everybody, including the black belts, at a good distance from me, because not only could i hit them quite a bit with the kicks, but i hit hard enough that they didn't want me to. when they would finally close the distance to land some punches, i got hit plenty, but just as often, i could dodge out of the way and create distance again, all using only one or two punches that really any idiot could pull off. and i was matched against much more experienced martial artists than myself.

anyway, this wasn't pure TKD philosophy really, but it helped me to gain respect for a simple, fast, powerful kick, which is the foundation upon which TKD is built. i can only imagine how much more useful the kicks would have been had i stuck with tang soo do for longer, not to mention if i had trained in pure TKD. so when i hear people talk like you do, i know that their opinions are borne out of inexperience and overconfidence in their own style or their own abilities.

mortal and maestro -

yeah you got me, i definitely argue for the sake of arguing. what else am i supposed to do, work? but seriously, it's not a "well known bull****" art. there's no such thing as a "well known bull****" martial art. every single martial art practiced today, with the obvious exclusion of the short-lived fake ones made up my "masters" looking to make a buck, has produced and continues to produce competent and even incredible fighters, competitors and martial artists. i'm defending TKD because i care about the martial arts, and really, i'm defending the martial arts. it's not about the style, it's about the individual teacher, and even more, it's about the individual student and their will to train and to train hard. if you don't believe this, i honestly don't know how you can respect the martial arts at all.

- zach

[Sir Didymus]

You said TKD guys aren't concerned with "what if's". That's completely silly then. How will they know what to do when that situation comes? They will just get their asses handed to them. I have respect for a good kick. But I have greater respect for a smart fighter. If TKD doesn't care about "what if's" then it's useless. When the situation comes they're gonna wish they thought about that.

Tang Soo Do? In Chinese: Tang Shou Dao. Tang from Tang Dynasty. Shou is hand. Dao is the way. The way of the Chinese hand. Even Korean martial arts want to be more like Chinese. Cuz it's the smart way to go.