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  • #46
    Originally posted by liutangsanzang View Post
    Here u can find the bagavad gita, the famous text about war and yoga. Damo, bodidhamma, probably studied this text as it is most praised in India, so it might help u get into his mind and the hindu vision of non violence, which is quite unique and beautiful.
    i have a suspicion that studying any text actually will not help you get into bodhidharma's mind, not to mention a non-buddhist text such as the bhagavad gita.

    I think if i want to understand the real Shaolin, i have to understand the indian mind. Isnt Damo said to be born in brhamin family?
    if you want to understand real shaolin, you have to know that there are no such differences as indian mind, chinese mind, and your mind.

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    • #47
      Well, can u get in a text or can u think and understand budadama? I dont know really but it seems that at the time of king Trison Detsen, the tibetans had the same question. So indian shcolars faced chan monks such as Mohe Yan. Mohe Yan was said to advocate not thinking during meditation while indian shcolars were eager to read texts. The tibetans chose the indian.

      In the platform sutra i think Huineng, the 6th patriarch, says that to reach not thinking, wunian, u should not try not to think. If it comes, it comes. I always wonder how good it is of not thinking about the misery in the world, the children dying without medicine, what i feel like the hidden massive violence of capitalism.

      U say there is no difference between my mind and the chinese mind. I guess it is the old question of non duality. I think it is a bit of scizophreniac question. Well, personally i feel there is a big difference between my mind and a chinese mind, but i guess it depends on ur definition of mind. Two different things can be linked but different. That is also going back to the question of difference and essence, of KONG and LI.

      I dont know, just some ideas.


      Finally Josh, to get back to the bagavad gita, maybe a few words if u dont know the text. This text is part of the Mahabarata, an indian novel. So, though it is revered, it is not a prophet who wrote it but a novelist. Many indian texts have such a status that it is not higher beings who revealed them.

      The question of the bagavad gita is how can non violence and war go together. Prince arjuna, before entering the battle field, is wondering how, while he devoted his life to non violence, he could go to war and kill his friend. Then appeards god Krisna who gives him a teaching.

      Peace and love

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      • #48
        remember what huineng replied when hongren first met him and laughed at him for being a southern barbarian trying to learn dharma?

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        • #49
          Originally posted by LFJ View Post
          never said the chinese knew much about stretching science or being able to either identify or treat sports injuries. they just want everyone to be able to do the splits. so... they make them.
          Well then that really makes me wonder why im so interested in kung fu, considering that all it has to offer me is the ability to do the splits under forced conditions...
          "Life is a run. In attack we run, in defense we run. When you can no longer run, time to die" - Shichiroji "Seven samurai"

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          • #50
            Just to give you all some resolution about what unfolded after the last post, Kuan Kuan was taken to the doctor/hospital the next day, by which time it was understood that the injury was not something he could just walk off. When he came back he had a bag of medication in one hand and and an mp3 player in the other. He has since been limping and spending most of his time in his room, I imagine listening to music. I can only guess the present and its purpose reflects the severity of the injury; it's a real bitch climbing four flights of stairs on one leg.

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            • #51
              Wait until you see the kids with broken arms walking around with cloth and sticks tied to their limb...
              Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

              "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

              (more comments in my User Profile)
              russbo.com


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              • #52
                It's been a month and a half that I've spent here in Dengfeng. I was thinking to myself of late about the person I was who walked through the Shi De Cheng Wushu Guan door six weeks ago; I am now beginning to see the changes from the time I've invested here.
                I was pretty clueless when I came to China, did my reading, had a small selection of phrases to use, researched and planned but, for the most part, had my hand held from point A to B. It occured to me in the taxi to the internet cafe just how casually I deal with life and the necessities that were such an effort only weeks before.
                While my kung fu has developed in leaps and bounds that would not have been possible in Australia, I've taken more from this journey as a lesson in life than simply a discipline of martial arts. The kung fu experience has become the cultural experience.
                However, with this revelation I have decided to leave Shaolin. I believe that it is time to explore China and focus my attention on different disciplines.
                The training I have recieved here has been excellent but I would like to give you some perspective of the school and of living and training here. Hopefully, it will be helpful to you and you're own adventures to Dengfeng and the surrounding countryside.

                I have already had an experience that will stay with me and influence me for years to come, I do not regret in any way coming (and staying) here. I do believe however, that the experience I have had may not be the ideal situation for serious martial artists. For me the question became where do I draw the line between expecting too much of the fantasy and becoming too lenient about my standards of training. I think the training I have recieved has been heavily influenced by several factors: my age (19); my level of kung fu (1 year of prior training); and the absence of Shi De Cheng.
                I will elaborate.

                My age. Because there is only a year's difference between myself and the head student-coach I am often put together with him to learn. I have no doubt in his abilities but there is an apparent lack of attention. To some degree this is the dilemma I experienced about self-motivation/role as a student/etc (see earlier posts).

                My level of kung fu. This plays into the aforementioned; because of my limited experience there is tendency to assign me to the younger coach. This is not to say I am taught nothing, or that help is not there if I seek it. Simply that there is little concern about poor technique on my part and its correction.

                Shi De Cheng. From what I have seen, there is a different atmosphere when Shi De Cheng is at training; more serious and more meticulous about technique. Can't comment much about this though.

                Let me be clear about this, I do not views these as negatives BUT I have seen an experienced German martial arts instructor stay for one night; he was neither impressed by the teaching of the younger coaches nor the location (school is located in a street, it's not the mountainside Dorothy) and left the next day.

                I will be here until the end of May/beginning of June and then I will explore the mountainside of Wudang Shan. I will join a school there to learn taiji and qigong. While I could do both of these here in Shaolin, I've heard that Wudang Shan is breathtaking and I'm looking forward to experiencing the Daoist culture and customs. Looking forward to your responses.

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                • #53
                  interesting, myself i would go to chen village, its closer and the gung fu is better then what you will get in wudang. but it sounds like you just wanna hang out at wudang or both i dunno. i know all the gung fu ive seen outta wudang isnt very impressive.

                  either way, i really like your posts and whatnot, its very interesting, i gotta cut this short cause i just got off work and i gotta eat and go to bed so i can enjoy the day.

                  so enjoy your time at shaolin while u can
                  "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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                  • #54
                    You've had the typical Shaolin experience. Now you know why I tell people a year is too much...

                    It's all about expectations. Keep them low and you'll survive China. Don't expect Wudangshan to be any different, or any other area in China. You're dealing with a group of people who, for the most part, are interested in survival, making money, and getting out. Not finding a teacher there who really cares about your training is to be expected.

                    But, over time, I think you'll look back on this experience as a hugely positive one, to the point where one day, you will make the journey back. I did. Twenty times. Granted, that might not say much for my sanity, but, it was an experience nonetheless.

                    Make sure you get to Emeishan, Huangshan, Guilin and Yunnan province while you are there. Did you climb Tiashishan yet? Get to the mountainous national park and rope bridge above Shaolin? Make sure you experience that before you leave.

                    See you in Thailand.
                    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                    (more comments in my User Profile)
                    russbo.com


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                    • #55
                      hey i didnt know your going to thailand...when u planning to go down there?

                      and take docs advice, i really wanna go to the places in the old(or new i havent been in there) photo gallery we got here at russbo
                      "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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                      • #56
                        I'm not sure he's going to Thailand. It was a joke.

                        It just seems to be the place people end up going after living in the shits of Dengfeng.
                        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                        (more comments in my User Profile)
                        russbo.com


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                        • #57
                          ironically, i'm considering going to thailand myself.. but for academic purposes, not as an apostate from shaolin!

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                          • #58
                            I'll do my best to address your responses.

                            I have decided to go WudangShan for many reasons: the scenery, the atmosphere, the difference of martial perspective but essentially for the internal arts of qigong and taiji. I'm not particularly interested in learning the gong fu on offer there. Part of the reason I wanted to come to China was to learn how to fight, expecting to find this here was a fallacy on my part. I believe that the method of training the students (at least from what I've seen at DeCheng's school) in gong fu is a slow, arduous process that takes many years to foster serious martial skill. However, when it all 'clicks' for the student and they understand the various uses for the techniques they have practiced, they are worth avoiding.
                            Case in point. Every Saturday we spar in Sanda for an hour, watching pairs fight and then participating. Now I have limited sparring experience, I can throw a punch and know my kicks but they aren't anything special (yet). The students don't train in Sanda but some of these kids have been learning kung for years. Apart from one student, I took down the other two older ones without much difficulty.
                            That is both the beauty and labour of kung fu in my opinion; it is both vast in its variety and thus considerable effort must be made to make it efficient and therefore practical. Contrasted against arts like boxing and styles like, for example, krav maga, that are purely functional. However, this hasn't deterred me from my studies and the experience has strengthened my resolve to pursue this art as far as I can.
                            In saying this, I will be making the journey to Thailand later in the year after I'm fully China'd out. Without hesitation I can tell you when I get there it won't take long before I'll be in a muay thai gym. Here I think I can get the education in sparring/self-defence that I initially sought.

                            I think to really appreciate this experience (from a martial standpoint) you a) must have some idea of what you are looking for and b) have some understanding of why you're coming. Now that I've had a taste, I am more clued in about what Shaolin is about. I feel that I will come back, one day; perhaps when I need some perspective in my life.

                            I think you raise an important point about expectations Doc. Yes, if you want Shaolin to cater to your own illusions and media fuelled impressions of the place you're bound to be unsatisfied. But there must be a balance somewhere; if you're not prepared to make an effort for what you want, resisting expectation, disappointment is just as certain. Understanding the culture and way things are done martially has been helpful in finding this happy medium. It has neither made me cynic or a dreamer; just more realistic about this balance.

                            Maestro, I will be in Thailand if my plans don't change between then and now. I forsee myself being there anywhere from August/September onwards, though I may go back to Singapore and work for a couple of months to top up my money box. Rest assured though, Thailand is a safe bet; I'll be there.

                            Doc, I have climbed TaishiShan (thought I wrote about that?) and tomorrow I'll be trekking up the temple path to Da Fa Wen Si; the Shaolin grounds will have to wait for another week or two. Don't know about Yunnan, if I can spend some time there on my way to Tibet I will consider it. And yes, see you in Thailand (no jokes!)

                            Oh and by the way, I noticed there was a sense of finality in those last posts Doc. Don't expect I'm giving up on the journal just because I've left Shaolin. This memoir is just as important a reference for me as I hope it is for all you Russboians out there.

                            Josh

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                            • #59
                              Yunnan is below Tibet; it is a beautiful fantastic place, that is more easily accessible than Tibet, and for many reasons, more spectacular.

                              Thailand is a horrible place to be in September October, see one of my recent posts in the Russboasia thread.

                              One other option is to go train at Decheng's brother's school in Beijing. He runs a great sanda school there. As China's national sanda champion for many years, he knows what he's doing. Nice guy too. Trained a bit with him many years ago.
                              Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                              "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                              (more comments in my User Profile)
                              russbo.com


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                              • #60
                                doc u got a link or anything for more infor about dechengs brothers school. and even though it sounds funny why do you always call him "de chengs brother" whats his name?
                                "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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