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  • #76
    Maestro, I assure you, he's good.

    I won't attest to his traditional knowledge (it's definitely not as good as Dechengs), but he is very skilled. I've known him since 1997.
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

    (more comments in my User Profile)
    russbo.com


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    • #77
      what exactly do you consider "traditional knowledge" or for that matter what is "good"

      im kinda curious because gung fu skills vary, and systems no matter how similar or dissimlar they are often involve alot of work that has a focus on combat rather then just playing with weapons and such.

      for example alot of people can whip around a flimsy broadsword but can they really wield a real broadsword. and if they can, how do you know if they could fight with it? thats what matters to me. its not about having to defend yourself with a broadsword, im not saying that..what im saying is either u got it or you dont

      butterfly kicks and cartwheels are for performers imo.
      "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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      • #78
        My limited experience with heavier weapons (heavy swords, Guan Dao, etc) is that they aren't for "flipping" around at all. Although I would not use the word "wield" either.

        Even with relatively lighter weapons like a straight sword...I've had some interesting (albeit padded) experiences sparring with this weapon, but I have found that the way that weapon form-work flows, it seems to be teaching you to let the weapon use your body as the means of attack, rather than the opposite.

        For example, A lot of neat applications can come of simply letting the swords touch and then letting gravity and momentum do the rest. Many of these end up embodying some sort of essence that can be found in even relatively "flashy" wushu forms.

        I imagine that the idea behind "weilding" a Guan Dao is similar, and a rather to-the-point lesson in Tao. It is a heavy weapon, don't try to muscle it; let it flow and allow yourself to work around it.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Maestro View Post
          butterfly kicks and cartwheels are for performers imo.
          there are traditional shaolin forms with butterfly kicks in them, such as the kimnara staff set.

          shi miaozhi (the shaolin disciple formerly known as yongbin) does his stuff like shi xinghong. so its very fast but skips over details to make it that way.

          for some people, that skipping has become the way to do it to the extent that they forget what it was they were skipping. hence the lack of traditional knowledge.

          but if you're that fast, flexible, and strong... it really doesnt matter. unless you're interested in learning and teaching the traditional stuff.

          but being good doesnt require knowing anything traditional.

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          • #80
            dogchow; real weapons are heavy and durable which is what combat on a battlefield demands. i wasnt talking about the "heavier" weps, i wasnt really talking about weps, moreso the understanding it takes to not only use them but effectively apply them without getting killed

            alot of those same skills translate to empty hand techniques. and every style has their own skills they develope and focus on.

            what im saying is, what exactly do you people mean when you say "traditional" im curious because it doesnt seem to be adding up

            i can quote lfj saying if you go to shaolin youll be dissapointed with the martial skills there, that its a temple...oh but now they are good at gung fu?

            so what does "good" at gung fu mean to you all then? forget mo duk yea its important i agree, but were not talking about that were talking about the skills, what your doing all that work for.
            "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Maestro View Post
              what im saying is, what exactly do you people mean when you say "traditional" im curious because it doesnt seem to be adding up
              tradition - a part of culture that is passed from person to person or generation to generation, possibly differing in detail from family to family, such as the way to celebrate holidays, or the way to do shaolin boxing sets and/or the meaning/application behind the movements.

              i can quote lfj saying if you go to shaolin youll be dissapointed with the martial skills there, that its a temple...oh but now they are good at gung fu?
              that would be a misquote. i've never said there are no people good at gongfu in shaolin. of course there are plenty.

              but if you go there looking for traditional martial arts you'll be disappointed in what you find. why? because you'd be going about it the wrong way. thats not to say it doesnt exist.

              so what does "good" at gung fu mean to you all then?
              whatever you do, do it well.

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              • #82
                ok lfj..dictionarys are wonderful but thats not exactly what im talking about.

                there is a very big difference between a traditional chinese martial artist and what yong bin for example is doing in those videos.

                what im asking is what do you understand of traditional chinese martial arts, not what does "tradition" mean

                example; in hung kuen you can argue, its not shaolin gung fu. but when wong fei hung was asked what style he practiced he was regularly quoted as saying southern shaolin. then you can argue there was no southern temple bla bla, im not even trying to get into this, and im using the system i practice as an example of what not to talk about.

                people are always going to argue, oppinions will always vary. what im talking about is you guys and how you percieve traditional knowledge as doc said.

                yes systems and arts and their respective traditionas vary. but the core of the style does NOT change. the superficial aspects of the style and the way its expressed can be changed and this is the truth for all styles and systems, but what it really is doesnt change

                so, again. what exactly do you guys think traditional skills and "knowledge" are...because obviously i cant get a straight answer
                "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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                • #83
                  Maybe because there is no straight answer.
                  Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                  "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                  (more comments in my User Profile)
                  russbo.com


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                  • #84
                    not imo..but thats not what im after, i guess its back to beating a dead horse.
                    "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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                    • #85
                      I think that your confusion with the "traditional" item stems from your understanding of the point of Chinese martial arts. As long as you keep thinking its "just for fighting", you will remain in the dark (hint) about the traditional purpose.

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                      • #86
                        yeah it kind of seems like you're begging the question a little.
                        ZhongwenMovies.com

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                        • #87
                          i dont think its just for fighting, i am really just curious to any oppinion at all, so far all ive recieved as an answer came from a dictionary

                          like i said martial virtues etc are found in every martial art, so how is it there arent any oppinions at all except for what lfj found on a wiki concerning chinese martial arts espcially on a shaolin gung fu forum?
                          "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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                          • #88
                            Martial virtue? You mean being humble? Well that takes actual knowledge, self understanding, and practice, as well as competition.

                            Which explains why you dont have any, maestra.
                            "Life is a run. In attack we run, in defense we run. When you can no longer run, time to die" - Shichiroji "Seven samurai"

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                            • #89
                              you're asking us to talk about a different topic, maestro.

                              all doc said was that some people lack traditional knowledge, mainly in regards to the way they do their forms, viz. moving as fast as possible yet effectively skipping over important techniques that over time get lost through them.

                              e.g. shi xinghong speeding up his forms, then teaching shi miaozhi (yongbin) in such a way that the traditional techniques fall through in the transmission. so what such people have now they are very good at, although they lack that traditional knowledge of the forms. make sense?

                              if you want to talk about martial virtues and whatnot we can do that, but thats a different topic.

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                              • #90
                                omg..never mind just forget it lolo.

                                btw lfj what are you maybe going to thailand for, you said education are u a student?
                                "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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