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The Breaking of Sticks And Steel Against The Body

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  • The Breaking of Sticks And Steel Against The Body

    Mainly directed at Doc.,,,,

    What do you all think about this ? Is it really a mastery of qi gong ? Does qi even have anything to do with it ? Can't you just train your bones muscles and tissues to take the abuse ?

    Sometimes it's just pure physics. Such as, if there is 2 or 3 feet of stick on the opposite side of your body from the person holding the stick, then the force distributed against your bady is not as great.
    -or-
    The bed of nails. Anyone can lay on one and it wont hurt much, as long as the nails are spread an inch apart. Any more and the weight distribution over one nail is too great and it hurts.

    I really think qi might be a by-product of the training in order to preak these things ! The steel bars broken over a head are not regular steel. They are much more brittle. So someone with a tough skull and the balls to smack theier head hard enough CAN break it.

    What do you all think ? What do you think about the streangthening of bones and tissues in reference to what you see the Shaolin performers doing, Doc ?
    "Winners turn to losers, losers are forgotten..." - A Tribe Called Quest

  • #2
    One of my sifu's had this same view point. He was totaly against the concept of Chi, he saw Kung Fu purely from a physics point of view and held the belief that Chi was nouthing more than pure bullshit.
    He could still break bords and bricks whith his hands and arms and also do the whole spear to the throat trick to.
    As for me im still kind of 50-50 on the whole Chi thang.

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    • #3
      The bed of nails is a pressure problem. Force is distributed over a greater area, which is why the nails don't puncture you. Each nail's tip is flat to a degree, and the sum of the surface area is how the weight is distributed. You're right about leaving so much metal away from the fulcrum and energy distribution. The metal is brittle already, and when you stop one end, the other end still wants to move, causing the thing to snap.

      However, after certain types of stimulus, bones have been seen to harden and calcify over the spots that are being conditioned. I'm sure you've heard of astronauts in 0-G who require special exercise in order to keep their bones from becoming too brittle. Same principle. While I'm willing to bet that those who break shit on their skulls have a slightly denser skull, you still need to take into account the type of metal and whether it is chi, as they claim, like you said.

      Personally, I believe it is a practice of blocking out the pain. I've felt things during practice and stuff, and I don't know if you'd quantify that as "chi"...but I don't think it matters...To do this kind of stuff you need to have no mind, and at that point I don't think whether you're using chi or not matters.
      Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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      • #4
        I saw another documentary once on disproving mystics in India. A camera crew and a couple scientists went around to small villages where people are taken advantage of by immitation mystics and the scientists would do the same feats but show the village people how they were doing them so the people would see it's just a trick.

        They did things like, blowing fire (gas is spit out your mouth and ignited, of course), laying on the bed of nails while having a concrete block broken on your stomach (the block takes the force of the hammer and you are left relatively free from the force exerted by the hammer), as well as walking on coals (a certain type of wood, i forget which, burns down to a coal that glows and a very low temp. as well as gives off a type of ash that when mixed with water, like the sweat on the soles of your feet, provides an excelent insulate against heat).

        I don't want to make it seem that I don't believe in qi. I have had many large sticks and poles broken against my abdomin as well as taken many punches at full force against my abs. I've been doing this since my early days in Taekwondo. Everytime I'm about to get hit I have to prepare myself. I get in a high gongbu, I tense my abs but not all the way, I squeez most of the air out of my lungs and make sure I'm breathing out on impact, and on top of all that I won't let myself get hit 'till I feel like I'm ready, untill the green light has come on so to speak.

        Do I cultivate qi in my abs when I do all this ? Maybe, but I feel no tingle, not a bit of difference except that I'm ready for the blow. Is it qi that keeps my internal organs from being damaged, or is it the physics ? Maybe in my tensing of the muscles and controling my breath I'm making my body compact and firm so that my organs can't shake around much. I feel very "solid" when I'm in this ready state and I "must" be breathing out so the impact force can escape. If that makes any sense. I'm sure if I was breathing in when hit things would not work out as well in the end.

        I see the monks and qigong practitioners do a very simmilar "getting ready" when they perform their feats.

        So is qi involved ? Maybe. But I believe it's the body and the way that I prepare it that allows me to take the blow. I don't practice qigong. I don't concentrate on an energy source when getting ready.

        And as far as breaking bricks and bars with your head or fists, you must build up your head and fists do do it. Punch bricks every day and they eventually break. In the process you have built up a stronger, more resistant fist or hand as well as increased your tollerance to pain. Maybe qi is involed but if you never concentrate on this internal energy or ever feel it for a second, your hand/head will become stronger anyway.

        Now, qi that is emitted from the body to heal other people or stolen from the women you sleep with to increase your vitality, well that's something else all together.....
        "Winners turn to losers, losers are forgotten..." - A Tribe Called Quest

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        • #5
          my view on this is very simple:

          you can condition your skin, muscles, and bones to absorbed great impact without causing a scratch and without ever having heard of such a concept of qi. and of course through simple physics you can perform stunts that would otherwise amaze people. but its simple conditioning plus physics.

          but with the practice of breath control and energy manipulation you can make parts of your body stronger though deep awareness and concentration. with this mental factor involved your body can sustain a lot more than with simple physical conditioning. when this mental factor is combined with proper breathing, you can elevate your tolerance much further.

          mostly, it has a lot to do with concentration developed through seated meditation. most of the conditioning can be done in a basic form. but with proper breathing techniques and deep concentration its much easier to elevate your skill beyond basic conditioning, which can itself become very advanced.

          and at this level, describing the physics within certain techniques is over-simplifying it. its making it understandable how it works but by no means makes it easier. keep in mind.

          have a look at this old school documentary. there's a guy really taking a whack on his head from a real stick. not those thin ten foot sticks that snap easily. this took a couple good solid whacks and didnt snap all the way.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHP_1...related&search=

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          • #6
            The "getting ready" state of mind is what I was talking about. It takes a certain type of mental preparation to do this, and by the time you really are ready, the existance of chi is the farthest thing from your mind. In fact, there is only one thing on your mind: Break.
            Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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            • #7
              I discussed my feelings on this whole qi gong thing, about ten years ago. It's in the site, somewhere, LOL. Damn, time has flown by.

              I feel it's all conditioning and physics. The qi gong thing doesn't strengthen anything but your resolve.
              Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

              "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

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              • #8
                Doc, I just noticed your avatar picture-- it's lighter on the sides of your head, like the light is directly behind your head...hmmm. I may be looking for Mary in toast, but it might be a halo...

                lmao
                Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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