Basically non chinese speaking newbie

[dave]

As an aside - as far as i know there is also a type of "pinyin" for cantonese and dialects such as Fujian, Hakka and others. Pinyin means kinda like "pronounciation", literally "combine sounds into syllables" so its a method of being able to make and pronounce words in whatever dialect. The standard is of course the Mandarin - but just to be aware, there are others

Long ago was the time i was interested in chinese hehe

dave

[Chris]

Again cheers all, you all seem full of knowledge, among other things according to doc, so i think i might just keep going with the questions .

For a start, good point lipster, i'd forgotten the lord of the rings, i went to nelson last holidays and did a 4 hour hike up to a place that was apparently part of "rohan". Come to think of it i might go there again to train if I can find the $$$$. if you guys are really interested i could probably post some pictures somewhere...

dave: i'd read about that modern and traditional styles of character, but truth be told i'd chosen to believe it didn't exist and was waiting for it to go away, seeing as i'm already strugging with pinyin. Also cheers for those sites, i found out a lot, especially something described as taiji stance, which i've believe it or not seen in a lot of tai chi.

doc: so what's happening to the school's around shaolin now, what's happening with the tour???

too tired to write anymore, will post tomorrow

Chris

[dave]

like i said, i dont do shaolin, but in taijiquan, the heel is almost always used to step first, with the toes pointing up, then the weight is transferred over the body. Many of the positions there on the 2nd link seem to be more transition moves?

As far as the language - its a big country and nothing is ever so simple unfortunately im sure with mandarin it will help you a lot as most modern books i think use that.

i dunno if any of us really have knoweledge or just easily appear to

dave

[Lipster]

I'm not arguing against its existence. I am arguing against people who use chi to misguide others into thinking "Here is a MASTER from whom I will learn something miraculous if I fork over enough $$$$." Or those who use it to cover up their own poor teaching ability "You got beat up, not because I didn't teach you properly, but because you didn't have enough chi." Or those who stop questioning the answers when they are told "Because its from chi."

Okay Mark, if that's how you meant it I guess I agree with you. But that's bound to happen with anything that's clouded in mystery and not fully understood; there’re always unscrupulous types who'll take advantage of people's ignorance.

As for the physiological aspects, I of course do not know the finer details of chi and physiology. Though I'd love to learn it in detail someday. You'd have to study TCM. Even Doc, who's life work is the body, I don't think has reached any conclusions about 'chi' in simple understandable western terms. [Doc?] The fact remains that it is a difficult energy to measure and study, this is why it's looked upon as mysterious. We may eventually be able to measure it as we can with heat and electricity. Maybe yes maybe no, it is unique to any energy we can measure now since it is the most basic and the most complex energy in the world. Anyway, it can be tracked with a heat detector, and has a frequency. The thing that gets me is that to the best of my knowledge, in TCM chi is far from mystical, it’s all readily explained. I'm sure if you spend a few minutes on the web, you'll find a decent page on a more westernised physiological idea of chi.

Concerning the exercises, any chigong exercises such as Ba Duan Jing, Yi Jin Jing and Lohan Drangoon etc, will increase and strengthen your chi. They also strengthen the body and assist in increasing flexibility. Again, I don’t know the exact technical details on how it actually works since I don’t study it, sorry. But look around. You’ve been doing Karate for a very long time. Have you never considered studying chigong to aid your MA? I’m sure if you learned from a reputable teacher it would be very beneficial.

Anyhoo, I think Doc might be your best bet in regards to a non mystical definition of it, he’s had a lot of experience on both sides.

http://www.jadecampus.com/TCMPhysiology_2.htm

http://www.nature-cure.com.sg/standing.html

As for your last point, I’m not so sure it’s the fact that not everyone has the ability to build it, rather then the fact that the specialists you mentioned are trained to excel the most they can in the shortest amount of time. And building chi to the point where it would be highly useful is a long process which requires patience. Its martial applications are only some of it’s benefits. It's primarily practised for health over a long period of time. Though I never thought of the point you made. Perhaps you’re right. Even if what you say is true, I don’t think that should indicate that one shouldn’t practice chigong, that’s like saying that a weak person shouldn’t practice MA because there’re an infinite amount of people out there who’re stronger then him. Practice enough and you’ll receive the benefits. Some may do it quicker then others, but that shouldn’t be a consideration.

Peace.

[doc]

Great discussions. But we're getting off the track here.

Feel free to start new threads in the appropriate sections. Remember, most people who visit us use this forum as a resource, and not a discussion board.

Qi again??? Oh boy....

doc

[Lipster]

Would it be too much trouble to move it from the appropriate point, Doc?

[Lipster]

Forget it Doc. Mark's started a new thread.

[doc]

Love the cow man.

[sunbird]

Originally posted by Chris

Also, if anyone knows anything about specific metals, materials or cutting techniques used in manufacturing of chinese broadswords, machetes, sabres and the like could they just chuck a post up or message me.

Chris

https://www.swordforum.com

Ask under "chinese swordsmanship"

[Chris]

questions, questions and yet more questions...

What are you seeing when you see movies of say jet li training at "shaolin", is that the monastry or the schools in the village or what?

Chris

[Chris]

... i can't help it, i'm inquisitive...

what is the difference between taijiquan and qigong? does either of them have a martial application? this one will probably sound like a stupid question but if you were to do a non-martial, chi-developing art would that be "conjunctable" with gongfu?

what would be an appropiate age to begin training that builds calcium deposits in bones (i.e. iron training), be interested in doc's opinion here, cause i'm only 17 and interested whether it inhibits growth or something? I've already begun hitting my hands, shins and forearms with heavy bamboo but i'm wondering whether further training would be wise...?

To all of you out there aside from the guy that claims he eats one lima bean a day, does anyone really need to diet, i know everyone has different metabolisms, but before i started gongfu i was pretty fat, and then suddenly i stopped eating fatty s**t, started playing soccer an hour and a half every weekday, training with weights and practised GF, and now i'm rather a lot fitter... went from 97kg to 77kg in a matter of weeks in fact. i've stopped training so much with weights now, i have a theory that it's much more benificial to just train with your own body weight, complicated gymnastics and such, but i have just started eating whatever the hell i can find again. Seriously, is there a diet as such that a practitioner of GF should adhere to, or does it not matter so long as you burn off the chemical energy stored in the food?

is there any quick way to improve flexibility or is it just the long steady road approach? I found a site that was posted in one of the forums really helpful, but it's still taking a long time, i just wished i'd started about three years ago when i could happily jump into the full lotus...

[dave]

what is the difference between taijiquan and qigong?

qigong is for health, taijiquan is a martial art skill. qigong uses many movements and postures that are not very good for fighting, whereas taijiquan follows fighting principles.

if you were to do a non-martial, chi-developing art would that be "conjunctable" with gongfu?

most styles of gong fu have qigong as part of their syllabus - if youre not healthy then how can you fight? If you cant use your natural body structure and relax in it, how can you develop power? So its important for chinese MA.

what would be an appropiate age to begin training that builds calcium deposits in bones (i.e. iron training),

traditional "iron" training is not as simple as just hitting yourself many times to build up calcium deposits. you need to build up step by step and also do a lot of other things as qigong and meditation, in some cases even some things like TCM as well. For example: if you just trian your fingers all the time and do pushups on them etc. hit your fist on things... it makes them inflexible, you also have to do training to keep hands and fingers loose and flexible. Otherwise that can cause problems later.

i'm wondering whether further training would be wise...?

just practise your kung fu - im sure you have some blocking drills that condition the arms etc. anyway or something right? As you get a good foundation and progress, things become a lot clearer and you will see what your style has to offer in that respect. Youve only been trianing 9 months right? plenty of time

Seriously, is there a diet as such that a practitioner of GF should adhere to, or does it not matter so long as you burn off the chemical energy stored in the food?

for me, its just natural. Eat fresh food, balanced meat, vegetables, pulses etc. Basically i eat whatever the heck i like, but i enjoy cooking so its cool. Everyone needs MacDonalds sometimes - even kung fu masters i remember when i first met my Sigong (teachers teacher) i had read so much about him i expected something else (as everyone does when they meet their idols). i expected someone who trained hours a day and was so healthy - then he asked me if i wanted to go to MacDonalds with him Thats when i realised that everyone is human and it doesnt affect health to veg out sometimes.

is there any quick way to improve flexibility or is it just the long steady road approach?

just step by step... gong fu means a skill gained through constant effort, hardship and practise... theres no shortcuts

just my thoughts,
dave

[Lipster]

Not much I can add to that.

Tajichuan is an internal martial art. Qigong forms are just internal exercises which improve your internal force, they aren’t applied martially.

Any pastime which increases your chi would be good for gong fu. Chigong itself is a "non-martial, chi-developing art ."

i've stopped training so much with weights now, i have a theory that it's much more benificial to just train with your own body weight

Well, that's true up to a point. At some point, when one's fairly developed, weights are a good idea to build up further. When you can do long periods of weight training with your own body effortlessly, start with the weights again. And you want to keep it at high reps for fast muscles in MA. But that should be a while yet...

As for diet, I wouldn't worry too much about it as long as it's not junk. Eat well when you're at a healing stage [after a hard workout or something.] I lost about 35-40 pounds in the first couple of months when I started. Now I just stick to lots of fish and vegetables, and try to keep meat down to once a week. Drink loads of water, this supposedly assists flexibility. Enjoy your snacks, if you train well there's no reason not to. Use the middle path, to go to any extremes.

I can understand the flexibility issue. It's probably the thing I have the least patience for as well because it's so slow, I wish I did it years ago too. But the bottom line is, like everything else, there's no shortcut. Take it as it comes. Warm up properly, that's very important. Don't rush it either, overstretching is worse then not stretching. And eventually you'll get there.

Peace

[Lipster]

That should read 'don't go to any extremes'...

[dave]

Qigong forms are just internal exercises which improve your internal force, they aren’t applied martially.

Any pastime which increases your chi would be good for gong fu. Chigong itself is a "non-martial, chi-developing art

it gets a bit complicated as usually at the some levels of Qigong AND kung fu there is some cross over. But qigong is mainly about how ot relax and let your body move in a natural way, learn how to listen to your body and do what it tells you. i remember my Simo told me a story about when she was in HK and saw an old woman walking around and every now and then doing random movements with her arms, body and legs. it was basically her own form of Qigong - just listening to her body and doing what it needs. She was 88 but still very flexible and healthy

The main thing is to relax and conserve your energy - that applies to anything. i know my wing chun grandmaster is now around 80 years old and he loves to go hillwalking and hiking. Actually when i was with him he could walk at such a fast pace! its good to see

Well, that's true up to a point. At some point, when one's fairly developed, weights are a good idea to build up further.

Even internal MA traditionaly use a method of weights to train the body. Wing chun and Taijiquan for example use a heavy 8 or 9 foot long pole to train how to devleop whole body power, as well as the structure, wrists and grip. Especially stance and ground connection too. But its not "isolation" like using most weights routines are. its using the whole body structure to develop body connection. Even for example in my hard qigong we use bricks and hold them in our hands outstretched and do htings with them, or a metal bar etc. So at a certain level some skills DO use those kinda things, but if you are a beginner, its better to get the technique right THEN develop power. Even for me the technique is hard enough as it is!

dave