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  • herbs

    good evening everyone

    I have always had an interest in tcm/acupuncture/shiatsu/ reiki among other things, The problem is I am skeptical there is many things out there I wish to believe are viable health solutions, but from the negativity I have heard about some things I am not sure anymore...

    1. Is Gensing a viable solution personally I use gensing in its liquid form as well as in tea , would the actual gensing plant be more appropriate does gensing have any long term effects ?

    2. Zheng gu shui is at the top of my list for muscle relaxing after a hard work out, but how effective is it against sprains strains and bruises ?

    3. Dit dat jow seems like a good herb I use after makiwara and iron palm training, is there a specific reason why it cant be applied to open wounds something to do with slowing down the healing process ?

    4.Does anyone here use points like li-4 hegu and gb-20 to relieve hedaches ?

    thank you for your time
    I am sorry for the length
    Ben Wallace

  • #2
    You're into reikii? You need to visit Doc's Hospital section, the one on "a foray into Schizophrenia...". God, that was something.

    I don't know much about Ginseng, though many people swear by it. I've been told that the Korean stuff is one of the most powerful and effective types.

    Dit Da Jow in an open wound will most definitely hurt, as it has some alcohol in it, as I remember. The alcohol acts as a solvent. Also, putting this stuff on an open wound might to a serious increase in absorption of the components (such as on a burn), which might have some interesting effects, depending upon how much was absorbed.

    Where is li 4 hegu and gb 20? Acupressure for headaches is very effective, depending upon the points that you use.
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

    (more comments in my User Profile)
    russbo.com


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    • #3
      thanks for replying

      I wouldnt say I was really "into" reiki more into acupressure and shiatsu

      liver # 4 hegu-is located in the fleshy area between your thumb and the rest of your digits from what I understand it is angled thumb pressure 5 second on 5 seconds of for one minute.

      gall bladder 20-these two points are slightly below the occipital bone of the head.

      Thanks for the responses thus far.
      Ben Wallace

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      • #4
        a friend of mine a while ago told me about the "liver no. 4" point in trying to get rid of a headache, although it wasn't presented to me as an acupressure point, as much as just a cool trick. the trick that was presented to me was to feel around that area for a faint pulse, and put the thumb of your opposite hand over the pulse until it went away. when the pulse went away, the headache was supposed to go away. this was a very brief "friend", if you take my meaning, and i never learned very much about her or her hobbies, so i don't know if she was familiar with acupuncture or acupressure at all.

        anyway i tried the trick and it seemed to work like a charm at first. i was quite surprised and delighted that it seemingly got rid of most of my headaches. but, since then, i have gotten a great many more headaches, and the number of headaches that have seemingly been "solved" through this method no longer seem very remarkable to me.

        as for the "gall bladder 20" point, massaging areas around your head, as far as i understand, has varying effects regardless of what acupuncture points are found there. i've read that if the headache is a migraine, massaging the temples and other areas around the head and neck might do more harm than good, because the problem is that there is too much blood in those areas, and massaging them might only bring more blood there.

        i obviously don't know the ins and outs of it, but i know that for myself, some advil almost always does the trick, so i don't have much of a use for these other methods. i figure, if someone is having so many headaches that they're taking harmful quantities of advil, they've got problems way beyond simple headaches anyway.

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        • #5
          Hegu is LI 4 yes, but the LI is for large intestine channel, not liver. Liver 4 is on the foot.

          Hegu is considered the command point of the face, and a strong point for moving qi and blood, thus it is good for headaches, especially facial or frontal headaches. GB 20 (i beleive its called fengfu in pinyin) is an excellent local point for occipital headaches.

          Ginseng is wonderful, you just have to know what it does. True ginseng is a tonic herb. It tonifies (tonifies= to build, strengthen, etc.) lung qi and spleen qi. In western terms it is used for strengthening patients who have chronic respiratory or digestive ailments due to deficiency.

          Good ginseng is expensive. A 2 oz. bottle of medicinal grade ginseng tincture can run from $20 to $250 per bottle depending on quality. The $20 stuff is all you really need unless you have money to burn. Buying whole ginseng root is only useful if you intend to make the tincture yourself. This can be done by filling a glass jar about halfway with dried ginseng root and then filling the jar with vodka. Let it sit for 4-6 weeks, shaking the jar every 3 days or so to stir the contents. When its done, take 1-2 shots per day.

          There are several types of ginseng. The major types are chinese (panax ginseng), korean (also panax), siberian (totally different genus/species, eleuthorus senticossus i think), and american ginseng (a derivitive of panax ginseng).

          Most ginseng in the u.s. is american ginseng. Chinese ginseng is very warm. For patients that present with too many heat symptoms, use of ginseng can aggravate their problems by heating up their bodies even more. Korean ginseng is even hotter. American ginseng is cooler and more of a yin tonic. Siberian ginseng isn't a tonic so much as it is a harmonizing and adaptogenic herb.

          On a side note, if you're a postmenopausal woman DON'T TAKE GINSENG OF ANY KIND. It will make hot flashes worse.

          So that's about all I can think of for ginseng. There's a firm in LA which has very high quality chinese herbs, but you'll pay for it, if you're interested in ordering anything. I beleive the name is Ron Teeguarden's Dragon Herbs.

          Doc, if you're not getting hotflashes you might want to consider getting some good ginseng into your body on a regular basis to build up your lungs.
          Show me a man who has forgotten words, so that I can have a word with him.

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          • #6
            hmm. it seems the new forum will still take some getting used to...

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            • #7
              i'm no tcm doctor but i always look at ginseng, having the same type of stimulatory effect on the metabolism, as a coffee replacement. I wouldn't like to go overboard with it though and would likely be a little concerned with my nervous system if I did, spleen / stomache / liver / kidney and such all related .

              As for your gbs, they are great points, but speaking therapuetically, I think a good ( what is that term ???) light knuckle tapping head massage , concentrating on the hollowing sounding areas for a bit ( avoiding / rectifying the problem Zachsan was speaking about with empty pockets and blockages etc) , is probably the best way to use them.

              For head aches and general pain relief, I like to use a quick pressure point combo of a left pc meridian bleed concentrating at ht 8 and pc 9, stimulating the point mid interior ankle point ( and lookey lookey who needs a chart review and can't remember its name ( ???42??) ) , followed by a good few minutes on the general pain relief points , like between 1st finger and thumb or your 3 wrist points ( but dodgy spot so be careful with those wrist points) . End in a pc 9 and I usually come good fairly rapidly. A few quick spine and neck intercostal ( between ribs and effecting lungs etc ) and shoulder stretches and releases seem to get that stagnant qi moving aswell.

              hope you find some relief

              Blooming Tianshi Lotus

              1/4 of a rep point done for the morning , so I'm gone....

              cheers
              "honestly girls dont seem to want anything other then whatever they want "atm" then that can always change:"
              maestro's love genius.

              first we work to live, then we live to work, ..& then when someone else can do it good enough without us - we can all run off and die.
              Blooming tianshi lotus

              "find something & thatd turn me on.." drahillionaire, warren buffet.

              'if you keep going, eventually you get there' chuck norris

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              • #8
                thanks for all your help guys

                does anyone else use zheng gu shui for muscle bruising and such things ?

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                • #9
                  While I've never used Zheng gu Shui myself, many of my professors in school swore by it. I have used several fromulations of Dit Da Jow for the same thing tho with great results, both personally and in my massage therapy practice. I have seen, tho I don't remember where, Infrared Photography and blood flow measurements before and after Jow use that show a drastic increase in blood flow to the area the Jow was applied to. (Qi directs Blood, Blood carries Qi?)

                  Neat stuff...
                  Mike Evans
                  Medford, NY

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                  • #10
                    A lot of these Dit Da Jow forumulations contain alcohol as a solvent. It not only facilitates the dissolution of the agents, but also helps increase absorption. Alcohol is a vasodilator, so increase in blood flow in the skin area on which it is applied is not unexpected.
                    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                    (more comments in my User Profile)
                    russbo.com


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by doc
                      A lot of these Dit Da Jow forumulations contain alcohol as a solvent. It not only facilitates the dissolution of the agents, but also helps increase absorption. Alcohol is a vasodilator, so increase in blood flow in the skin area on which it is applied is not unexpected.

                      Hmm...now I have to go find that study and see if they took that into account....If I find it I'll post the info...
                      Mike Evans
                      Medford, NY

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by doc
                        A lot of these Dit Da Jow forumulations contain alcohol as a solvent. It not only facilitates the dissolution of the agents, but also helps increase absorption. Alcohol is a vasodilator, so increase in blood flow in the skin area on which it is applied is not unexpected.
                        This is a liitle off topic, and I have my own theory, but do you think that's why after my morning shot of bai jiu or my 100mls of red wine. I get a better ( ......how to put this????????) immediate energy potential on than I do without it?? I pump out some serious sets at times ( like up to 500 pushups ( though not so recently more than 150) and rediculous amounts of other things , and I am sure this has alot to with it. No, ........... nearly sure....... besides digestive aid ( which is just the early stages of what ends up to be the same thing ) will you explain this to me ??


                        Btw : sorry for the thread jack , but I really want the answer.



                        Cheers

                        Blooming Lotus
                        "honestly girls dont seem to want anything other then whatever they want "atm" then that can always change:"
                        maestro's love genius.

                        first we work to live, then we live to work, ..& then when someone else can do it good enough without us - we can all run off and die.
                        Blooming tianshi lotus

                        "find something & thatd turn me on.." drahillionaire, warren buffet.

                        'if you keep going, eventually you get there' chuck norris

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It might, as alcohol has a "feel good" effect. I don't see any true physiological reason for an increased performance though. It will make you "feel warm", artificially, as the peripheral vasodilation allows increased heat loss through the skin, thus making the skin, and you, "warmer". All at the expense of actually losing body heat....

                          The vasodilation is probably not going to over ride, or increase, the muscular vasodilation that comes with exercise.
                          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                          "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                          (more comments in my User Profile)
                          russbo.com


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My theory is that having a diet really low in dry complex carbs and usually overloading my more bioavailable proteins according to recommended intake advice, that the alcohol acts as a step ( as in the strip and heat component ) gearing toward the same grain as the msm process or to help catabolise my protein aminos , so all I'm left with after the cleanse phase 9 which I believe completes the effect as above) is immediate ready to go energy. I have actually checked this out with both a naturopath and a pharmisist, and read godknows how much info on it, but being I am still not ho9lding official quals in the professional health industry, if you'd explain it back to me yourself, though I really don't have many doubts about it, and see many many other benifits as similar to your msm s and L-Argenine benifits re immunity and GH stimulation and so on, I'd feel a whole lot more inclined to accept it as a truth if it was comming from you. ( touching but true )


                            cheers and thx again

                            Blooming Lotus
                            "honestly girls dont seem to want anything other then whatever they want "atm" then that can always change:"
                            maestro's love genius.

                            first we work to live, then we live to work, ..& then when someone else can do it good enough without us - we can all run off and die.
                            Blooming tianshi lotus

                            "find something & thatd turn me on.." drahillionaire, warren buffet.

                            'if you keep going, eventually you get there' chuck norris

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              From what I gather here, you're claiming that cutting down on carbohydrates, increasing protein consumption, and using alcohol to help accelerate the body's breakdown of those proteins into energy, will all work to increase your available energy stores. At least, that's what I think you're saying.

                              Well, my biochemistry sucks, but, from what I remember, it won't work that way. We're getting into some complex stuff here, so, I think I'll move this to the Hospital section. Lot's to talk about, and I'm going to need some time to put it all together. (Shi De Cheng arrives in a few hours....)

                              I'll get to it.
                              Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                              "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                              (more comments in my User Profile)
                              russbo.com


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