Chu chi quan/chu qi quan/qu qi quan - which is it???

[dogchow108]

Damn, actually i tried not to do the Q in there...ah, well NOW i am half asleep...more to come

[xing_jian108]

Alright, and don't let Zachsan discourage you from studying Chinese. It's a fun language. Zachsan is a lame-o.

[zachsan]

****, all i make is a simple comment and i'm a lame-o. oh well.

[dogchow108]

You think ive spent the last 3 months working at a Taiwanese restaurant for nothing? trust me...it takes more tha one lame-o to stop me at this point (j/k Zachsan, i love you).



Anyway, about the grammar thing- i am pretty sure, as i have gone and checked, that the Ji Chu and Chu Ji thing goes as follows-

Chu Ji is an adjective, and that Ji Chu is a noun- which makes it incorrect that "Ji chu ke" means the basis of the class (or course, as a new source has informed me, can also be denoted by "ke"). In order to mean that using this two-word noun you would have to say Ke de Ji Chu...no?

Anyway, i guess that as far as the form the guy learned...

Ta ke nan xue yi ge chu ji de tao lu (le???)....and mean that he learned one basic form. can you say it like that? (and since were on this, i am having a hellacious time with this "le" particle...HELP)

You could also say "Tao Lu de Ji chu shi shou fa". although for some reason that is ringing kind of weird...

Also: "Zhei ge tao lu ing gai jiao ji ben de shou fa" although i think im saying it kind of english-ish.

[onesp1ng]

Guys, one suggestion. If your going to discuss Chinese, then use it. Use either simplified or traditional characters.

I mean, I understand you can usually manage a correct translation from context through pin yin, depending on the depth of the subject, but, someimtes it can be a real adventure without the characters to base things on, and cause many misunderstandings. Maybe in the future use both for those who can read it and those who can't.

G

[dogchow108]

Hah! are you kidding? The only way I can use characters in this kind of communication is if we were to talk exclusively about lunch items, and i can barely handle taking orders down at work with chinese characters as it is, much less type a written conversation.

Besides, i still havent found a decent bo-po-mo-fo based program that i can download in roder to write with. I do much better with that, and i find it more practical and much less confusing. As for the efficiency of non-character communication, you want to tell me that every time two chinese people have a conversation, the characters for each word pops up holographically above their head so the other person knows what theyre talking about? not to mention talking on the phone.

Dont get me wrong, i'm learning some characters as i go, and ill probably pick up the pace once im comfortable. Plus, in some cases reading written characters can help you identify a grammatical rule you werent previously aware of. but for now obsessing with characters has caused me to take a month long break. twice. in less than a year's study time.

I appreciate the suggestino, tho...and to be honest if i was capable of doing so, i would write in chinese...just the whole thing here is that XJ108 is a native of the language. Me, ont he other hand- if Chinese were a phone im still at the point where i might as well be punching numbers in with my butt cheeks.

[xing_jian108]

Ji chu ke is still ok.. although you have the right idea about other things with "de" in the middle. Let's show some other examples though:

Dinner guest= yan hui ke ren
Guest room= ke ting
And to use one with "ji chu" as used before:
The basic issue= ji chu wen ti
The basic lesson= ji chu ke

All of these have a double noun where the first noun is used like an adjective. I suppose you could use them with "de" in the middle. But it's not neccesary to change it like. Because it's a different type of phrase. It can be just like in English.. You can say "the school's dog" or you can simpy say "the school dog". Same as "the issue's basis" or "the basic issue". It can be used the same in Chinese. "Wen ti de ji chu" is the "ji chu wen ti". Same thing.

"Le" should be used for when a state has changed or to show something has completed. Example:

Ta jin tian shang ban.= He works today.
Ta jin tian shang ban le.= He went to work today. (completed action)

Ta shi nan ren.= He is a man.
Ta shi nan ren le.= He is a man. (used to be a woman, change of state)

"Le" should also be used all the time with "yi jing" which means already. Anytime "yi jing" is used in a sentence, "le" must be used, either at the end of the sentence or the action. Example:

Ta yi jing qu mai dong xi le. -or- Ta yi jing qu le mai dong xi. (He already went shopping)

Another point is the difference between "le" and "guo". "Guo" means it has been done in the past. "Le" means it has been done and still in effect. Example:

Ta qu le zhong guo.= He went to China. (and is still there)
Ta qu guo zhong guo.= He went to China... before, and is back now.

.... I like teaching Chinese. I should make a career out of that as well as martial arts.

[dogchow108]

Tell me about it---i could probably have done a dissertation by now for ESL.

Ok, and with the "le" thing, i get it in theory---but when it comes down to free speech, i soemtimes get confused...

like of you want to say "Ta hai mei (you) lai" you dont put the "le" there. i learned that very recently, even thought i had thought it made perfect sence to add it. I asked the professor if you could add the "le" there to indicate that it is not in present time, but rather as if you are looking at it in retrospect--- still cant tho, according to the professor. Other friedns of mine said the same thing (its actually kind of interesting listening to the teacher's more conservative BeiJing Mandarin as opposed to the Taiwanese Mandarin i am used to).

Actually, i am also kind of glad that you brought up the "guo" particle....i pertty much get that one except that sometimes it sounds like the idea of "has been" is used sometimes in chinese where it wouldnt make sense in english. Other than that tho, it seems pretty similar. theres a word in Hebrew that can be used in almost the same way, but it also literally means "already". the grammar for it can be used in both the way Guo is used and Yi Jing.

Generally, though, would you say that chinese is more, less, or about as flexible in terms of what can be gotten away with?

i'm of the opinion that it is so far the most anally inflexible language ive learned yet. but then, thats kind of what i like about it.

[dogchow108]

Oh, one more thing, i got to use "Mei Jia Jiao" today....i wish i had a camera for that.

[xing_jian108]

I think the only time you can use "le" with "mei you" is when you are talking about having something, not having done something. Example:

Ta mei you lai.= He hasn't come. -or- He didn't come. It's the same for any time. Like:
Ta jin tian mei you lai.= He didn't come today.
Ta zuo tian mei you lai.= He didn't come yesterday.
And also: Ta jin tian hai mei you lai.= He still hasn't come today. Can't use "le" here. But here's the other example:
Ta mei you shu.= He doesn't have a book. (didn't bring one or something)
Ta mei you shu le.= He doesn't have a book anymore. (change of state again, lost his book)

The simple difference between "guo" and "yi jing" is like the difference between "before" and "already". He said that before. He said that already. Same meaning here but different in: He went to China before, and, He he went to China already. Because in Chinese it would be:

Ta qu guo zhong guo. -and- Ta yi jing qu le zhong guo.

In the second sentence "le" is used showing the change of state again. So that second sentence would mean that he already went to China and is living there now. The first sentence would mean he went to China before and is now back.

Chinese isn't very flexible with grammar at all. There are only slang words not really slang phrases or sentences like in English people totally screw up the grammar. Can't do that in Chinese or you just sound stupid. It sounds stupid in English to me anyway.

[Paul702]

It's definitely Chu Ji Chuan( how Xingwei pronounces it) like Xing Jian said. Xingwei started teaching it as the beginner-beginner form. When I started, the first form learned was Shao-Hong Chuan but as the school's grown and a bigger cross section of students is coming in (some with no martial experience) he's going back to get the basics solidified in them...and all of us really. No matter what, you've gotta work the basics. Like Wu Bu, it's just good for working on that snap in the waist/hips when shifting between stances. The form is so short you can blink and miss it, but it's good stuff. I still break a good sweat if I practice it hard.

[eling99]

It's definitely Chu Ji Chuan( how Xingwei pronounces it) like Xing Jian said. Xingwei started teaching it as the beginner-beginner form. When I started, the first form learned was Shao-Hong Chuan but as the school's grown and a bigger cross section of students is coming in (some with no martial experience) he's going back to get the basics solidified in them...and all of us really. No matter what, you've gotta work the basics. Like Wu Bu, it's just good for working on that snap in the waist/hips when shifting between stances. The form is so short you can blink and miss it, but it's good stuff. I still break a good sweat if I practice it hard.

yup i agree with you...its chu ji quan!!! pretty basic and a very short form!!!

[Xiaobeeno]

It's definitely Chu Ji Chuan( how Xingwei pronounces it) like Xing Jian said..............The form is so short you can blink and miss it, but it's good stuff. I still break a good sweat if I practice it hard.

I do like the form, it doesn't take too much room to practice, and like you said, you can work up a nice sweat if you practice it hard enough.

Thanks for the definite response.

Cheers

[eling99]

are you the guy(im sorry, i forgot your name) that came to vegas for like a month or so??

[Steve]

are you the guy(im sorry, i forgot your name) that came to vegas for like a month or so??

Yes, That is Phil from England.