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Thread: What do you know about the Yin Yang Symbol?

  1. #11
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    Nov 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by doc
    Maybe no one wants to talk to you?
    I think there is no one here.

    I think there is no one who is interested in kung fu as evidenced by the number of posts in this thread.

    I think that weak men would rather indulge their emotional reactions to me, instead of putting those emotional reactions aside in order to get what they want. Kung fu knowledge.
    -------------

    For those quiet thinkers out there that want to talk, but do not want to become a target of the haters or jokers, I got your next post for you.

    When looking for an answer for anything, look everywhere. Observe everything possible for some answer. You never know what it is that will stimulate your mind. Stimulation can come from the most unlikely places.

    This thread is about "what do you know about the Yin Yang Symbol, the actual symbol". Or the question could be "What is the Yin Yang Symbol for or what does it represent".

    If someone poses me a challenge, instead of whining, crying, or attacking, I think about the challenge. I want to progress so I can get out of this world. I want to move on to the world with the smart and kindly people.

    So I look at the Yin Yang sign and what do I see? I see a circle with a curved line through it. I also see two colors, black and white. The black and white colors are on either side of the wavy line. One of the smaller circles is white while the other is black.

    There is really not much to work with their. This person is asking me what the Yin Yang symbol means, and there is one shape, a circle, two colors, black and white, and a single curved line. How am I supposed to figure out anything from that?

    I start thinking and I start observing. I look at the world around me and I wonder what in that world could be connected to the Yin Yang sign. I am looking through the internet and I come across the photo shown below. The photo shown below depicts a black and white object.



    Both the object in the picture above, and the Yin Yang sign, are black and white.

    Could that object in the picture have anything to do with the Yin Yang sign? Could the Yin Yang sign tell me anything about the object in that photo?

    Maybe. Maybe not. That is where thinking comes in. This is where the thinking people are separated from the malicious, lazy, unthinking gossiping magpies.

    If you are a thinking person, I can promise you there is a connection here. It might take you 5 years to see it, but there is a connection. Don't give up. If you leave this forum and never read this thread again, do not forget there is a connection between the photos.

    One of these years when you wake up, you will be told the answer by your guardian angel or some kind telepathic soul. Then you will feel chagrin at the way you treated Happeh, and you will be angry at yourself at how much time you wasted because you did not trust or believe him.
    Last edited by Happeh; 06-18-2007 at 04:39 PM.

  2. #12
    Quite honestly Happeh, your question about the yin yang symbol is a good one. Though I have read many things about the origins of yin and yang, I know absolutely nothing about the symbol. I think most of the rest of us probably feel the same way. It's kind of like a traffic light; it's something that you've seen for your whole life, but you have no god damn idea as to why some guy designed it that way a hundred years ago.
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

    (more comments in my User Profile)
    russbo.com



  3. #13
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    The symbol of yin and yang is also known as taiji or taijitu and is a representation of Taoism itself. It is a proces not a state.

    Yin and Yang are opposites but not in a seperated way. You can fill in whatever you want like night/day, cold/warm, black/white, male/female,...etc.
    The character for yin contains the character for moon and the one for yang contains the one for sun.
    Yin was used to name the northern and colder mountainside and yang the southside which faces the sun. Over time yang got linked to sunlight and yin with shadow and from there on to all interlinked opposites.

    HTML Code:
    there is one shape
    One is the Dao.
    According to taoist beliefs yin can't exist without yang and the other way around. They need eachother and can't be separated, so they are represented within the same symbol.

    HTML Code:
    a circle
    Taoism sees time in a cyclical way and not linear. Time is a succesion of rises and decays. Cyclical so that's why it's a circle.

    HTML Code:
    , two colors, black and white
    Every yin still has some yang in it and vice versa so that's why within the black area there still is a white dot and vice versa. Black obviously being the opposite of white and representing the light and the shadow as mentioned before.
    The Corean flag uses yin yang symbol but uses Blue and Red.

    HTML Code:
    , and a single curved line
    Then there is the idea that at the climax of yin it will change into yang and the other way around. Like the rise/decay/rise/decay... etc. To represent this constant changing the flowing line in the middle is used because this invokes an idea of movement. As if one wants to enter into the other


    Now to apply this to fighting: If there is no attack, there is no need for defense, they need each other. Attack and defense form one unity and can't be separated. It is a proces with a lot of changes where both try to enter into the defense of the other and change the existing balance between their forces.


    HTML Code:
    I look at the world around me and I wonder what in that world could be connected to the Yin Yang sign
    The classic mistake people make when doing phisycs. They think the empiric rules order what happens in nature, which obeys the laws of phisycs.
    But nature was here before our philosophers and scientistst. People started observing and learning and finally they had theories and found some laws to be coherent with what they saw.
    Yin yang symbol is a representation of what happens in nature.
    So you could better think "I look at the world around me and I wonder what in that world could be represented by the Yin Yang sign"

    And the answer is everything and nothing.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    53
    found this

    Dear Members,
    One of my students asked me about the origins of the yin-yang symbol, specifically about the selection of the visual elements in the symbol. While I was able to explain the message conveyed by the various elements I don't know why those particular ones were chosen. Any help will be appreciated.
    Sherri West
    Professor Sherri West
    (732) 224-2410 (work)
    History Department
    (732) 528-0064 (home)
    Brookdale Community College
    Lincroft, NJ 07738
    swest@injersey.com
    Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 08:10:33 -0400
    From: tonywang@istar.ca

    The Yin Yang Chart is generalluy called Taiji Tu, which Prof. Richard Smith translated as "the picture of supreme ultimate." I believe this was culturally more Daoist artifact than a Confucian property. It was believed to have first appeared in Song4 Dynasty scholar Zhou1-lian2-xi1's _Tong1-shu1_.
    In fact, many similar graphic conceptions were circulating and were major topics of intellectual dispute among Song4 scholars. The most notable dispute was negotiated between Zhu1-xi1 and Liu4-jiu3-yuan1's brother. The Lu's complaint was that Zhu1-xi1 unnecessarily added Laotze's concept of limitless (Wu2ji2) before Confucius' usage of Taiji. They argued over Zhou1's 249 word essay titled "On the Taiji Tu." This argument was conducted by means of 23 correspondences. Apparently, the graphic concept was a major controversy in Song4 scholarship. Whether Confucius was crazy about Laotze's concept of nothingness (Wu2) was one thing. It is obvious that some sort of the Taiji graphic notions were alive among every one familiar with _the Book of Changes_ after Confucius introduced the word Taiji in _the Changes_.
    This chart was obviously not a Song4 invention because a similar Yin Yang picture had already appeared in one of the Tang dynasty Daoist canons called _Zhen1-yuan2-miao4-pin3-jing1_. This Yin Yang grpahic consisted of five black and white alternating circles representing the five elements (metal,wood, water,fire and earth). It is evident that the well known Taiji Tu which later became part of the South Korea national flag was an integral part of the ancient Chinese culture. The current graphic we see, with two conjugating fish shapes, could not be a Song4 invention at all. It should have existed long before, probably before Tang Dynasty. At least in terms of designing concept, a similar product called the mail case, which was made of two pieces of wood shaped like fish containing letters for the purpose of correspondence, was designed according to the concept of the Yijing, since Fish and Bird, two symbols of "correspondence," were the most frequently used metaphors in the Yijing.
    Among the popular legends, the most commonly believed one was for Zhu1-xi1 to send Cai4-ji4-tong1 to Si4chuan (and Shan3xi1) to search what Zhu1 believed to be a vital Laotze legacy, three Taiji graphic designs. Apparently, Zhu1 did not live long to see any of the three, since his major Yijing publication Zhou1-yi4-ben3-yi4 did not include this mystic design. In his old age, Zhu1 became increasingly fond of Daoist thoughts. He could have become a true believer of the Taiji Tu and a convert with greater penchant towared Daoism.
    Although I wrote a book called _the Principles of the Yijing_" (yi4-jing1-yuan2-li3), I am neither a scholar nor a historian. I am interested in researching topics related to the Yijing crafts, such as geomancy, fortune-telling, divination, and folk religion, as a layman.
    Please pardon me for any errors I made. I became a member of the HA list when I was working for the Fulbright Program in Taipei several years ago.
    Tony Wang
    Independent researcher
    email:tonywang@istar.ca
    http:www.roc.simplenet.com
    Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:32:02 -0400
    From: "Richard J. Smith" <smithrj@rice.edu>

    Since my name has been invoked by my good friend Tony Wang (Wang2 Ming2-hsiung2), I should probably add a word or two to this discussion. First, despite his protestations to the contrary, Mr. Wang is a fine scholar, whose book on the basic principles of the I-ching (I-ching yuan-li) provides an illuminating "close reading" of the classic as a divinatory text. Second, the translation of T'ai-chi tu in my book, Fortune-tellers and Philosophers, is actually "Diagram of the Supreme Ultimate"--although the word "picture" certainly conveys the same basic notion. Third, Mr. Wang is certainly correct in asserting that versions of the T'ai-chi t'u circulated before the Sung period, although they did not gain any real currency until that time. What is not generally known is that the famous Ho-t'u (River Chart), usually rendered in straight lines, also occasionally appears in shapes that suggest the T'ai-chi tu (see for example, the section on the I-ching in the Ch'ing encyclopedia Ku-chin t'u-shu chi-ch'eng [Vol. 55, p. 574-576 of the Taiwan Ting-wen reprint of 1977]).
    Richard J. Smith
    Professor of History (MS-42) and Director of Asian Studies (MS-47)
    Rice University
    6100 Main Street
    Houston, Texas 77005 USA
    Phone: 713-737-5843 (Asian Studies) or 713-527-4947 (History)
    Fax: 713-737-6129 (Asian Studies) or 713-285-5207 (History)
    Asian Studies homepage: http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~asia/
    Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:03:55 -0400
    From: Evgueni Tortchinov <blade@comset.net>

    It seams to me (but I am not completely sure) that the symbol of taiji (Monade, yin-yang) has been appeared in the second half of the Tang Dynasty period (about 8 or 9 centuries A.D.). I think that it was influenced by the graphic symbolism of the Tantric Buddhism (mi jiao) thoug the idea imbodied in the Monade was very old. We can find the symbolism of white(enlightment) and black (delusion) circles in the writings of the Buddhist authors of Tang period (in Zong-mi's "Ch'an Preface" and in the "Five Positions," wu wei, of the "Caodong school of Chan Buddhism."
    With good regards,
    Evgueni Tortchinov
    Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:04:46 -0400
    From: Steven Davidson <davidsos@southwestern.edu>

    In Schuyler Cammann's article in History of Religions 1-2, 1961-63) on "The Magic Square of Three in Old Chinese Philosophy and Religion" he points out (p.77) that "Sometime in the Sung, a new Yin-Yang symbol appeared, to take over the sole remaining function of the Lo Shu [river diagram]. . . The new symbol was also intended to represent the workings of the Tao through the actions of the Yin and Yang, as the Lo Shu had once done . . ."
    This doesn't answer your question about the reason for the selection of the artistic elements, but it does state that it happened in the Song.
    Steve Davidson
    Southwestern University
    Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 08:48:01 -0400
    From: "[ISO-8859-1] Holger Kühnle" <HOLGER@gw.sino.uni-heidelberg.de>

    To Evgueni Tortchinos answer:
    I don't think you're right. Have a look in He Yan's (190-249) "Wuming lun" (Treaties on the Nameless) as quoted in Zhang Zhan's (4th cent.) Commentary on ch. 4 of the _Liezi_ (_Zhuzi jicheng_-edition, p. 41)! You will find there no picture but a quite detailled and exact description of the taiji. Too exact if he hadn't a picture in mind that suits well with those of the well-known taiji-symbol.
    Holger Kühnle
    University of Heidelberg
    Germany
    HOLGER@gw.sino.uni-heidelberg.de
    Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 08:48:44 -0400
    From: Michael Lestz <Michael.Lestz@mail.trincoll.edu>

    I seem to remember that the yun-yang symbol appears on bronzes of the Shang dynasty—perhaps earlier as an artistic motif on pottery. At any rate, it considerably antedates the Tang or Song eras.
    Happeh, could you enlighten the rest of us now?

  5. #15
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    Regardless of the origin, I like the way LFJ put it in response to baiwanxi's question about Shaolin. His answer seems to be significant to this thread as well.

    ---------
    "WHY DOES UNDERSTANDING SHAOLIN HAVE TO BE SO CONFUSING???"

    -because for one, its always changing. its never the same at any one point. and two, shaolin isnt for understanding. shaolin is for understanding yourself. the trick to that though is that we are always changing, ourselves. we're never the same at any one point. try and figure that out now, why dont you?
    ----------

    The taijitu is a symbol, but, more importantly, it can be used as a tool for understanding ourselves, nature, and the coalescing of all things into one. It is representative of what we can witness through observation and inquiry, both within ourselves and in the natural, phenomenal world. Actually, the taijitu is everywhere. It can be seen in the current of a river, the tide's ebb and flow, or by the mountainside. Look up or down and you will see it. It's like a mirror, visible even when looking at oneself. The taijitu is, therefore, "understanding."

    Some of you may have heard of the environmental sculptur, Andy Goldsworthy...one of my favorite artists. He uses his natural environment to create sculptures that project a certain type of imagery capable of illustrating the interplay and transient nature of energy that we often confuse -- the great paradox of life. In doing so, his pieces tend to contradict the notion of permanence, since all of his work, eventually (usually within a day or so), disintegrates into the land or air, being reborn into something new. This kind of artistic imagery, in my opinion, can be very helpful to understanding the meaning of the taijitu.

    "At its most successful, my 'touch' looks into the heart of nature; most days I don't even get close. These things are all part of a transient process that I cannot understand unless my touch is also transient-only in this way can the cycle remain unbroken and the process be complete." -Andy Goldsworthy

    In terms of how an understanding of the taijitu can affect a person's "daily kung fu practice," it's multidimensional. For one, taiji, as an example, was born out of these "principles." Hence, an understanding of the taijitu has a direct correlation to one's insight into how taiji works as a whole...and how the universe works as a whole. This understanding can have profound affects on the practitioner's ability. A person with a better understanding will have the potential to manipulate and control their opponent more, giving them great power: the power to be "in flux," to be changable, and to also generate power.

    mmmmmmmmm...
    ......

    sorry, got to run. will have to finish later.... here are some pics of Andy's work first.

    oops... hey, doc, can you insert an image tag so I can post some pics in this thread? thanks.

    well, here are the links for now.. enjoy!

    http://re3.mm-a4.yimg.com/image/3042891867
    http://re3.mm-a6.yimg.com/image/3404970391
    http://www.trashotron.com/agony/imag...hy-boulder.jpg
    http://re3.mm-a3.yimg.com/image/2654578345
    http://re3.mm-a7.yimg.com/image/376321237
    http://re3.mm-a7.yimg.com/image/3906888647
    http://re3.mm-a2.yimg.com/image/2245687446
    http://re3.mm-a5.yimg.com/image/3219377399
    http://re3.mm-a1.yimg.com/image/2059777988
    http://re3.mm-a7.yimg.com/image/3725915855
    http://re3.mm-a2.yimg.com/image/2241589267

  6. #16
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    Mar 2004
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    2,114
    One of these years when you wake up, you will be told the answer by your guardian angel or some kind telepathic soul. Then you will feel chagrin at the way you treated Happeh, and you will be angry at yourself at how much time you wasted because you did not trust or believe him.
    Aww.

    If you are a thinking person, I can promise you there is a connection here. It might take you 5 years to see it, but there is a connection. Don't give up. If you leave this forum and never read this thread again, do not forget there is a connection between the photos.
    You think.

    Look, nobody wants to play these games with you. Tell us what you think the connection is and show us your evidence. Otherwise, stop whining about how we're the ones with nothing to say.

  7. #17
    interesting theory, Doc.
    No Chumbas, por favor!

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    128
    Quote Originally Posted by doc
    Quite honestly Happeh, your question about the yin yang symbol is a good one. Though I have read many things about the origins of yin and yang, I know absolutely nothing about the symbol. I think most of the rest of us probably feel the same way. It's kind of like a traffic light; it's something that you've seen for your whole life, but you have no god damn idea as to why some guy designed it that way a hundred years ago.
    You ban me for making abusive posts. I told you what goes around comes around. When I came back, you said I posted like a baby. I told you you had a bald head like a baby.

    You stopped the abuse. I thought you had got the message that aggression gave no benefit to either of us. Then you print that stuff above.

    You are a bonehead. You may be rich, you may be a doctor, you may have a fan club, but you are a loudmouth bonehead. No wonder you attract other loud mouth boneheads.

    I have not even begun to speak about what I wrote this thread for, and you are telling me I do not know what I am talking about.

    You are no different that Gene Ching. Shooting his mouth off before the conversation has even really begun.

    A man claiming to be a big shot in charge of things. Ya you are Gene are in charge of things. You are in charge of the Russbo.com daycare center for kids, and Gene Ching is in charge of the Kung Fu magazine daycare center for kids.

    Fools like you hold the progress of the entire human race back. Why don't you do everyone a favor and give up kung fu and close down this site? It is people like you and your coterie that make everyone think kung fu is a joke.

    Your stupidity and the stupidity of your fellows is hastening the degeneration of kung fu in the western world.
    Last edited by Happeh; 06-23-2007 at 04:22 PM.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    128
    Quote Originally Posted by Carona
    The symbol of yin and yang is also known as taiji or taijitu and is a representation of Taoism itself. It is a proces not a state.

    Yin and Yang are opposites but not in a seperated way. You can fill in whatever you want like night/day, cold/warm, black/white, male/female,...etc.
    The character for yin contains the character for moon and the one for yang contains the one for sun.
    Yin was used to name the northern and colder mountainside and yang the southside which faces the sun. Over time yang got linked to sunlight and yin with shadow and from there on to all interlinked opposites.

    HTML Code:
    there is one shape
    One is the Dao.
    According to taoist beliefs yin can't exist without yang and the other way around. They need eachother and can't be separated, so they are represented within the same symbol.

    HTML Code:
    a circle
    Taoism sees time in a cyclical way and not linear. Time is a succesion of rises and decays. Cyclical so that's why it's a circle.

    HTML Code:
    , two colors, black and white
    Every yin still has some yang in it and vice versa so that's why within the black area there still is a white dot and vice versa. Black obviously being the opposite of white and representing the light and the shadow as mentioned before.
    The Corean flag uses yin yang symbol but uses Blue and Red.

    HTML Code:
    , and a single curved line
    Then there is the idea that at the climax of yin it will change into yang and the other way around. Like the rise/decay/rise/decay... etc. To represent this constant changing the flowing line in the middle is used because this invokes an idea of movement. As if one wants to enter into the other


    Now to apply this to fighting: If there is no attack, there is no need for defense, they need each other. Attack and defense form one unity and can't be separated. It is a proces with a lot of changes where both try to enter into the defense of the other and change the existing balance between their forces.


    HTML Code:
    I look at the world around me and I wonder what in that world could be connected to the Yin Yang sign
    The classic mistake people make when doing phisycs. They think the empiric rules order what happens in nature, which obeys the laws of phisycs.
    But nature was here before our philosophers and scientistst. People started observing and learning and finally they had theories and found some laws to be coherent with what they saw.
    Yin yang symbol is a representation of what happens in nature.
    So you could better think "I look at the world around me and I wonder what in that world could be represented by the Yin Yang sign"

    And the answer is everything and nothing.
    Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah....Blah Blah Blah Blah.

    Yes you have reprinted just about everything they write in the books. But no, you did not answer the question.

    I told you that looking to others is a waste of time. They lie. If you want to figure it out, you either listen to me, or you do it yourself.

  10. #20
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carona
    found this



    Happeh, could you enlighten the rest of us now?
    Carona found a bunch of scientist talking shite. They repeat lots of historical crap, but do they tell you what the Yin Yang sign itself can tell you about the human body or other things? No.

    So what about this big fancy looking stuff? These people spent $20,000 for college to be trained in speaking bullshit. Being trained in speaking bullshit will get you a job, but you are still the same stupid person you were before the training.

    You cannot teach smarts and curiosity. It is something innate. If you are a lazy that wants people to spoon feed you, you made your choice, so live with it.

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