911 is a joke

[zachsan]

That plan doesn't mention blowing up civilians. It makes it clear that it would be blowing up drone ships and planes, if anything. And more to the point, it never happened.

[onesp1ng]

for those who still believe that their government is completely innocent and incapable of thinking up such plans:

-------------------------------
Operation Northwoods, or Northwoods, was a false flag conspiracy plan, proposed within the United States government in 1962. The plan called for CIA or other operatives to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Castro-led Cuba. One plan was to "develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington".

This operation is especially notable in that it included plans for hijackings and bombings followed by the use of phony evidence that would blame the terrorist acts on a foreign government, namely Cuba.

The plan states,

"The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere."
Operation Northwoods was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and signed by then-Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer, and sent to the Secretary of Defense.

The document lists methods (with, in some cases, outlined plans) the authors believed would garner public and international support for U.S. military intervention in Cuba. These are staged attacks purporting to be of Cuban origin.

1. Since it would seem desirable to use legitimate provocation as the basis for US military intervention in Cuba a cover and deception plan, to include requisite preliminary actions such as has been developed in response to Task 33 c, could be executed as an initial effort to provoke Cuban reactions. Harassment plus deceptive actions to convince the Cubans of imminent invasion would be emphasized. Our military posture throughout execution of the plan will allow a rapid change from exercise to intervention if Cuban response justifies.

2. A series of well coordinated incidents will be planned to take place in and around Guantanamo to give genuine appearance of being done by hostile Cuban forces.

a. Incidents to establish a credible attack (not in chronological order):

(1) Start rumors (many). Use clandestine radio.

(2) Land friendly Cubans in uniform "over-the-fence" to stage attack on base.

(3) Capture Cuban (friendly) saboteurs inside the base.

(4) Start riots near the base main gate (friendly Cubans).

(5) Blow up ammunition inside the base; start fires.

(6) Burn aircraft on air base (sabotage).

(7) Lob mortar shells from outside of base into base. Some damage to installations.

(8) Capture assault teams approaching from the sea or vicinity of Guantanamo City.

(9) Capture militia group which storms the base.

(10) Sabotage ship in harbor; large fires -- napthalene.

(11) Sink ship near harbor entrance. Conduct funerals for mock-victims (may be in lieu of (10)).

b. United States would respond by executing offensive operations to secure water and power supplies, destroying artillery and mortar emplacements which threaten the base.

c. Commence large scale United States military operations.

3. A "Remember the Maine" incident could be arranged in several forms:

a. We could blow up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba.

b. We could blow up a drone (unmanned) vessel anywhere in the Cuban waters. We could arrange to cause such incident in the vicinity of Havana or Santiago as a spectacular result of Cuban attack from the air or sea, or both. The presence of Cuban planes or ships merely investigating the intent of the vessel could be fairly compelling evidence that the ship was taken under attack. The nearness to Havana or Santiago would add credibility especially to those people that might have heard the blast or have seen the fire. The US could follow up with an air/sea rescue operation covered by US fighters to "evacuate" remaining members of the non-existent crew. Casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation.

4. We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington.

The terror campaign could be pointed at refugees seeking haven in the United States. We could sink a boatload of Cubans enroute to Florida (real or simulated). We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized. Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots, the arrest of Cuban agents and the release of prepared documents substantiating Cuban involvement, also would be helpful in projecting the idea of an irresponsible government.

5. A "Cuban-based, Castro-supported" filibuster could be simulated against a neighboring Caribbean nation (in the vein of the 14th of June invasion of the Dominican Republic). We know that Castro is backing subversive efforts clandestinely against Haiti, Dominican Republic, Guatemala, and Nicaragua at present and possible others. These efforts can be magnified and additional ones contrived for exposure. For example, advantage can be taken of the sensitivity of the Dominican Air Force to intrusions within their national air space. "Cuban" B-26 or C-46 type aircraft could make cane-burning raids at night. Soviet Bloc incendiaries could be found. This could be coupled with "Cuban" messages to the Communist underground in the Dominican Republic and "Cuban" shipments of arm which would be found, or intercepted, on the beach.

6. Use of MIG type aircraft by US pilots could provide additional provocation. Harassment of civil air, attacks on surface shipping and destruction of US military drone aircraft by MIG type planes would be useful as complementary actions. An F-86 properly painted would convince air passengers that they saw a Cuban MIG, especially if the pilot of the transport were to announce such fact. The primary drawback to this suggestion appears to be the security risk inherent in obtaining or modifying an aircraft. However, reasonable copies of the MIG could be produced from US resources in about three months.

7. Hijacking attempts against civil air and surface craft should appear to continue as harassing measures condoned by the government of Cuba. Concurrently, genuine defections of Cuban civil and military air and surface craft should be encouraged.

8. It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner enroute from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight.

a. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone.

b. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will being transmitting on the international distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO radio stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" the incident.

9. It is possible to create an incident which will make it appear that Communist Cuban MIGs have destroyed a USAF aircraft over international waters in an unprovoked attack.

a. Approximately 4 or 5 F-101 aircraft will be dispatched in trail from Homestead AFB, Florida, to the vicinity of Cuba. Their mission will be to reverse course and simulate fakir aircraft for an air defense exercise in southern Florida. These aircraft would conduct variations of these flights at frequent Intervals. Crews would be briefed to remain at least 12 miles off the Cuban coast; however, they would be required to carry live ammunition in the event that hostile actions were taken by the Cuban MIGs.

b. On one such flight, a pre-briefed pilot would fly tail-end Charley at considerable interval between aircraft. While near the Cuban Island this pilot would broadcast that he had been jumped by MIGs and was going down. No other calls would be made. The pilot would then fly directly west at extremely low altitude and land at a secure base, an Eglin auxiliary. The aircraft would be met by the proper people, quickly stored and given a new tail number. The pilot who had performed the mission under an alias, would resume his proper identity and return to his normal place of business. The pilot and aircraft would then have disappeared.

c. At precisely the same time that the aircraft was presumably shot down a submarine or small surface craft would disburse F-101 parts, parachute, etc., at approximately 15 to 20 miles off the Cuban coast and depart. The pilots returning to Homestead would have a true story as far as they knew. Search ships and aircraft could be dispatched and parts of aircraft found.

again, this is public record. kennedy said 'no' to it. on 911, however, someone said 'yes.'

[doc]

the point being made was that people are extremely gullible.

As evidenced by the last election.

Al Franken for the Senate in Minnesota? What are they thinking up there, LOL.

[doc]

Didn't say it was true Liu. Just said that there was some basis in fact for it. From the books on the Vietnam war that I've read (and I've read most of them), the majority do not deny that there were "threatening" ships present.

Question is, just how ''threatening" they were. Of the two incidents, the first was proven, the second questionable.

Johnson, who didn't want the damn war but used it out of fear of the Soviet Union, was probably in no mind to create some sort of incident to escalate what was going on. He was in the process of increasing advisers to the region regardless as I recall.

[liutangsanzang]

Doc, u r making an interesting point there. As a basque i would not deny the existence of leftist terrorism and its international structure, though the international network is probably weaker than what u think, everybody being concerned by his own national fight.

The question however is that in front we have state sponsored terrorisms. I ve made a post about Operation Condor in SOuth America, we talked about 9/11 in Chile, here we talk about extreme right in Italy being sponsored by CIA, i could talk about the GAL in Spain that might have been a form of state sponsored terrorism against ETA.

I dont like to affirm things when i dont know so i doubt all this, but there seems to be a lot of evidence.

How can you say the Tonkin incident is true, when you dont know? If you do this i feel u fall in a form of paranoia where the paranoiac does not doubt his constructions about evil people.

Paranoia is not doubt, it is not doubting.

And by the way when did the palestinians have a state? Would u say the native american indians had a state and they were terrorists? Even if i think that thanks to Gandhi we can see that violence can be a crime when it comes to independant struggle, there are many examples of violent struggles for independance that seem legitimate. Were the french resistance to the nazis terrorists?

Peace and love

[onesp1ng]

the point being made was that people are extremely gullible. military exercises aimed at the same targets under the same conditions are not a coincidence. they are a scapegoat.

Report reveals Vietnam War hoaxes, faked attacks
Jan 7, 2008

WASHINGTON (AFP) — North Vietnamese made hoax calls to get the US military to bomb its own units during the Vietnam War, according to declassified information that also confirmed US officials faked an incident to escalate the war.

The report was released by the National Security Agency, responsible for much of the United States' codebreaking and eavesdropping work, in response to a "mandatory declassification" request, the Federation of American Scientists (FAS) said Monday.

From the first intercepted cable -- a 1945 message from Vietnamese leader Ho Chi Minh to his Russian counterpart Joseph Stalin -- to the final evacuation of US spies from Saigon, the 500-page report retold Vietnam War history from the perspective of "signals intelligence", the group said in a statement.

During the war, North Vietnamese intelligence units sometimes succeeded in penetrating US communications systems, and they could monitor American message traffic from within, according to the report "Spartans in Darkness".

On several occasions "the communists were able, by communicating on Allied radio nets, to call in Allied artillery or air strikes on American units", it said.

"That's something I have never heard before," Steven Aftergood, director of the FAS project on government secrecy, told AFP.

But he said that probably the "most historically significant feature" of the declassified report was the retelling of the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident.

That was a reported North Vietnamese attack on American destroyers that helped lead to president Lyndon Johnson's sharp escalation of American forces in Vietnam.

The author of the report "demonstrates that not only is it not true, as (then US) secretary of defense Robert McNamara told Congress, that the evidence of an attack was 'unimpeachable,' but that to the contrary, a review of the classified signals intelligence proves that 'no attack happened that night,'" FAS said in a statement.

"What this study demonstrated is that the available intelligence shows that there was no attack. It's a dramatic reversal of the historical record," Aftergood said.

"There were previous indications of this but this is the first time we have seen the complete study," he said.

declassified intelligence proves that 'no attack happened that night.' they perpetrated a lie, covered it up, and the american media backed and sensationalized it.

the us government has no credibility. they lied then, they lie now.

[doc]

History has proven beyond a doubt that the majority of "Terrorism" and terrorist incidents we have witnessed since WWII are in fact State-sponsored terror. There is now enough official declassified evidence available to the public which document this disturbing trend of "False Flag" attacks by Western Governments. Documented examples include the Reichstag Fire(sparked Hitler's rise to power), Operation Ajax(1953 CIA Coup in Iran), the Gulf of Tonkin Incident(our excuse to escalate the Vietnam War), USS Liberty incident (Israel's destruction of a decorated US ship during the Six Day War) and Operation Gladio- the CIA & NATO's terror operations in Italy which culminated in the infamous Bologna Bombing of 1980. All these events provided the context for a major conflict, the installation of an authoritarian regime, or to further a wider global agenda. In each and every case, the media covered the initial lie, while history eventually revealed the truth.

He's not reading the same history books I have.

There was a Dutch guy who was found there, who had significant political leanings. The fire might have been from him and Hitler took advantage of the situation, or, he may have been a scapegoat. The jury is out on it. Most of your respected WWII historians go with the Dutch guy as arsonist story, and Hitler taking advantage.

Same with the Tonkin incident. I've read a few books on it, most feel that there was reason to believe they were under attack.

I read about the Six Day War. Israel's firing upon our warship was a genuine mistake.

But he's right. The majority of terror incidents in the late twentieth century have been state sponsored. The Palestinians may not have sponsored them per se, but they were involved in training and equipment, etc, with a lot of the European terrorist incidents brought about by European leftist groups. So, he's right in a way, but not in the way that he thinks he is.

[onesp1ng]

Bush planned Iraq 'regime change' before becoming President

By Neil Mackay

A SECRET blueprint for US global domination reveals that President Bush and his cabinet were planning a premeditated attack on Iraq to secure 'regime change' even before he took power in January 2001.

The blueprint, uncovered by the Sunday Herald, for the creation of a 'global Pax Americana' was drawn up for Dick Cheney (now vice-president), Donald Rumsfeld (defence secretary), Paul Wolfowitz (Rumsfeld's deputy), George W Bush's younger brother Jeb and Lewis Libby (Cheney's chief of staff). The document, entitled Rebuilding America's Defences: Strategies, Forces And Resources For A New Century, was written in September 2000 by the neo-conservative think-tank Project for the New American Century (PNAC).

The plan shows Bush's cabinet intended to take military control of the Gulf region whether or not Saddam Hussein was in power. It says: 'The United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein.'

The PNAC document supports a 'blueprint for maintaining global US pre-eminence, precluding the rise of a great power rival, and shaping the international security order in line with American principles and interests'.

This 'American grand strategy' must be advanced for 'as far into the future as possible', the report says. It also calls for the US to 'fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theatre wars' as a 'core mission'.

The report describes American armed forces abroad as 'the cavalry on the new American frontier'. The PNAC blueprint supports an earlier document written by Wolfowitz and Libby that said the US must 'discourage advanced industrial nations from challenging our leadership or even aspiring to a larger regional or global role'.

this is the same document, whereby a statement is made in 'creating today's dominant force,' that says the 'process of transformation' to american global dominance will be a slow one "absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor."

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

[onesp1ng]

relevant article:

It's often the case with geopolitical events that things are not always what they seem. If you believe the Official Report on the London Bombings of 7/7, it's probably because you haven't had an opportunity to see the following evidence. The smoking gun may actually be much closer to home than we previously thought. On 7/7 a number of unbelievable coincidences and irregularities took place which should warrant a full investigation and although the responsibility rests on our government and law enforcement to bring this story to light, it is also in the best interests of every member of the public to demand a full and transparent report on these events.

If an independent investigation were to be re-opened, the first call should be made to the heads of Visor Consultants in London. Peter Power, Managing Director of Visor Consultants, a private firm on contract to the London Metropolitan Police, described in a BBC interview how he had organized and conducted the anti-terror drill, on behalf of an "unnamed business client". The fictional scenario that Visor were running that morning was based on simultaneous bombs going off at exactly the same time... at the underground stations where the real attacks were occurring. If investigators were able to find out the name of Visor's unnamed business client, they would be one step closer to explaining what really happened that day.

Long serving members of the Britain's government and intelligence agencies have come out in public and declared the government's involvement in the events of 7/7, but they cries have been virtually ignored by the mainstream press.

In almost identical fashion, a set of 9/11 war games took place, based on hijacked jets hitting the exact same targets at the exact same time as the real events which took place. These war games are generally ignored in the official 9/11 story, and when pressed, the claim is made by officials(like on 7/7) that some of the war games 'helped speed the response' to the situation. Now we can see a real pattern emerging. The media and the 9/11 Commission Report did not dare prepare a full list of all of the war games underway that morning, even though all of them have been mentioned in some sort of official context or mainstream media article. Like on 7/7, it is difficult to believe that it is a bizarre 'coincidence' that the military and CIA were conducting identical war games similar to 9/11 on September 11, 2001. Many other irregularities that don't jibe with the official reports took place on both days, and can easily fill more pages than we have space to write in here. All of these points are available to the public to research on the web.

It would strike any educated person with some common sense, that the odds of identical war games taking place on both those days where the very same 'terrorist' attacks took place- are beyond astronomical. To say that the US and Britain were simply "unlucky" on 9/11 and 7/7 is an almost surreal proposition. Experts have calculated these odds with standard actuary tables used by major insurance companies, to calculate the probability of terror drills and actual attack events coinciding in a 10 year mean and it was "one in 300 pretagillion". That's a number greater than the number of grains of sand on this planet. My answer to the official story: too many questions and not enough answers.

History has proven beyond a doubt that the majority of "Terrorism" and terrorist incidents we have witnessed since WWII are in fact State-sponsored terror. There is now enough official declassified evidence available to the public which document this disturbing trend of "False Flag" attacks by Western Governments. Documented examples include the Reichstag Fire(sparked Hitler's rise to power), Operation Ajax(1953 CIA Coup in Iran), the Gulf of Tonkin Incident(our excuse to escalate the Vietnam War), USS Liberty incident (Israel's destruction of a decorated US ship during the Six Day War) and Operation Gladio- the CIA & NATO's terror operations in Italy which culminated in the infamous Bologna Bombing of 1980. All these events provided the context for a major conflict, the installation of an authoritarian regime, or to further a wider global agenda. In each and every case, the media covered the initial lie, while history eventually revealed the truth. All each case, the government and the media immediately produced a set of terrorists or culprits and in every case, history eventually found them to be innocent of those crimes. In the case of 7/7 and 9/11, the same principles can also apply.

Repeated attempts by the families, first responders and fire fighters of 9/11 to re-open the investigation to events on the day, have all fell on deaf ears. George Bush went on national TV and declared, "Let us not tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories", and Tony Blair echoed his position in Britain, claiming that the nation "are traumatised and must move on from the events of 7/7", in effect squashing all independent attempts to re investigate numerous irregularities on the day. A mainstream CNN poll show that 90% of Americans believe there is a US Government cover-up surrounding 9/11. With this level of public discontent now in the open, perhaps it would be a good time for the people in both the US and Britain to demand a full and open independent investigation into both events and 9/11 and 7/7. With so much at stake, and with so much now invested in our alleged new enemy, brand "Al Qeada", both populations deserve nothing less than all the facts laid out in a transparent manner by our own authorities.

We should all take more than a casual interest in the events on 7/7 and 9/11 because the official interpretation of these events have, in so many ways, reshaped the very fabric of our society and have all but destroyed our Bill of Rights. The hands of our Western governments' intelligence agencies reach into areas which many ordinary members of the public can neither understand nor fathom- yet these are all paid for by our taxes and are meant to be accountable to the people. It's a very dark road we are being led down- if we do not turn the current illusion around. The price we are paying abroad is huge, but the price we are paying at home is practically unknowable. Think about the changes we have seen in our own societies, and where those changes are taking us.

Don't take my word for it. Do your own research and discuss these important issue with friends, colleagues and family. Wake up world.

http://www.helium.com/debates/77025-qaeda-blame-summer-scares/side_by_side

300 pretagillion, as i am told, looks something like this:

300,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000

- simply "beyond astronomical !"

[liutangsanzang]

I just finished watching Zeitgeist, veri puzzling.

though i still feel uneasi that thei affirm some truth without doubt, makes me think of paranoia

Still the fact for instance that there is no trace of plane in the pentagon or shankville is so strange

but to think also that conspirators would not have thought about it is strange

i m just puzzled and do not draw ani conclusion
makes me think we must be veri awake and think and get a lot of information and deepli meditate on non violence

i m reading about Marx these dais and his attempt to escape philosophi, that s veri interesting

i deepli believe that 2 understand politics it is good to read some political philosophi books

and just 2 friends from mi business school, political school and socialist parti have answered about the documentari on september clues

dont know what 2 think about it

it s not the first time i feel frustrated about an absence of debate

a lot of them probabli think i have too mani strange ideas

for instance when i talk about vegetarianism, animal suffering of buddhism, thei look at me like an alien or a mad man

on the whole from mi experience in political actitivities i feel that is a lot about asserting the ego
for instance inside the same political parti thei will think a lot of bad things about other members

of course it is veri hard to go out of the dialectic of contradiction but that s what i am working on through an attempt to rethink the socratic dialectic of 2 ignorant person triing to reach truth through a loving debate


peace and love

[liutangsanzang]

whi are thei afraid to break official belief?

well i tell u iesterdai night i had a hard time finding sleep after watching ur video and thinking there is no god! scari...

[onesp1ng]

interesting. thanks, liu. and you may be right about the speed at which some of the conclusions are made. the key, i think, though, is that these arguments exist and many people are unaware of them.

i actually remember on 9/11 sitting there for a few of those videos, being like, "huh? that didn't make sense at all." my background, however, is in broadcasting, video editing, etc., so perhaps i think from more of a technical perspective when approaching the broadcast media since interning my senior year at college in a news room. i see the mainstream news media in america to be relayed and marketed in a very mind-numbing, force fed manner - with competition at its root.

you may understand what kind of wall people are up against by sharing in unofficial theories. when research leads them to believe emphatically in their positions, i don't blame them for trying to get the message out. although you may not always agree with the syntax in which they do it, maybe try focusing on the content more.

i find it interesting that people rationalize how three buildings disappeared into 'baby power,' and how two "aluminum planes" can be absorbed into steel reinforced concrete buildings without any indication of deceleration. there is, what some claim to be, conclusive chemical proof of demolitions as well. few look at it objectively.

the alternative is just too hard to imagine, i guess. conclusions are basically made for us based on preselected information and anything that challenges that paridym is grouped together as "conspiracy stuff." i don't really understand why so many people are afraid to break from official beliefs either.

anyhow, it should be interesting to hear what your friends have to say.

cheers..

[liutangsanzang]

I have seen ur video on september clues. Very puzzling. I still have no conclusion. I thought the video drew too fast conclusions, and that is a bit paranoiac. They constantly say: "It is fake"

I ve sent the link to some friends who are in politics in France to ask their opinion. The first answer was that to doubt in this case is paranoia and historical revisionism. Interesting that just like Panda the guy mentioned the nazi gas chambers. But i guess he didnt even watch the video. The fact that he talked about paranoia, in my sense, points out to a fear of paranoia in case of doubting the official version. I think it is really interesting to see how people are afraid to go away from official beliefs because they feel like they would become mad. It is an obstacle one has to be conscious of in searching and sharing the truth. The funny thing is that the paranoiac is not the one who doubts but the one who do not doubt.

U asked me also to elaborate more on what i feel is the paranoia of Bush and Bin Laden.

They have in common the fact that they see their opponents as absolutly evil and that they both use religious vocabulary to describe him. Psychotics are often subjects to mystical delirium.

One remedy against the tendancy to see someone as absolutly evil, might be the natural goodness in every sentient being. Nobody is completly evil but has to some extents seeds of love.

Again whoever was behind 9/11 had some paranoiac tendencies. But the funny thing is that both sides might have good reasons to think the other one is evil...

I try to stay in a middle way.

Peace and love

[Maestro]

onesp1ng if you were as good at gung fu as you were at finding solid info on 9/11 i would have to come to taiwan or hong kong or wherever u are to kick your ass lolo

[dogchow108]

The irony here rather funny.