about that "nobel prize nominee" surgeon / shiavo case

[Steve]

Day 13 Terri Schiavo without a Feedtube and Day 2 of the Pope with one.


Anyone taking Bets?
I'm going to Hell.

[doc]

if she does not feel pain, why are they giving her morphine?

The problem is, Rob, is that no one gets to this point and "comes back"; so no one really knows what Schiavo is "feeling". From a scientific standpoint, theoretically, because she has no cerebral cortex, she should not be having any sort of concious thought. However, pain centers lie deeper (those areas appear to be "gone" in her CT also, but, not enough visualizations to be sure), so it's mainly a theoretical consideration.

The morphine drip not only makes her more "comfortable", if it's high enough, it will accelerate her demise.

Remind me to talk about the "locked in" syndrome one day.

[Steve]

Well, it's all over now. Terri Schiavo died this morning after 13 days off the Feedtube. But I think the truth of how bad she was or not will come out in the next few days.

[Steve]

The family is now fighting over who is getting her ashes.
No joke, they are serious.

[zachsan]

http://progressivetrail.org/articles/050401Shaw.shtml

[master splinter]

in psych class, i saw this place in china where they take kids who were born with not enough brain matter. this place is a huge room, with a wide wooden floor that these disabled children crawl back and forth any way they can, encouraging brain activity(usually helped by the docs) they also massaged these children with a special technique. there was one little boy who had no frontal lobe, little midbrain, and a brainstem. after about one year at this place, this child grew 70 % of his brain back due to this therapy, the fact that he had very young brain cells that repaired themselves very quickly opposed to adults. maybe they couldve helped terry. oh well, at least shes resting now.

[Greenknight2]

How I feel about this? I think the news media has led how she is. I heard she was able to speak. I think she should have been taken to a nursing home instead. Besides if your in that situation, do you want to want to happen to you. If the doctor thinks you will have no quality of life, off you go? How are we going to learn to heal people like this is we don't take care of them. I agree, as much as I don't like to say it, it would have been kinder to knock her off and be done with it.

[zachsan]

she couldn't talk, she could only make random noises with her mouth and would occasionally move her face randomly. to a hopeful observer (like her parents) it might look like there was "someone home", but it would only be wishful thinking. despite these reflexive movements, she wasn't conscious at all. as for the ending of her life, that (according to her husband) was a decision she had made earlier in her life, not the doctor.

keep in mind, she was in that state for 15 years. everything that could have been done had already been done.

[shaolinstylee]

People forget about this 15 year thing too...

Also, I wonder if some day that brain stem research would come up with something to help someone in her condition out, and how many of the people complaining that they pulled her tube were opposed to that.

[LeiYunFat]

That brain matter stuff Rob was talkin bout reminded me of a story I once heard bout a man who had no brain matter but only brain fluid and went to Harvard. Heh.

[master splinter]

she couldn't talk, she could only make random noises with her mouth and would occasionally move her face randomly. to a hopeful observer (like her parents) it might look like there was "someone home", but it would only be wishful thinking. despite these reflexive movements, she wasn't conscious at all. as for the ending of her life, that (according to her husband) was a decision she had made earlier in her life, not the doctor.

keep in mind, she was in that state for 15 years. everything that could have been done had already been done.

I think that everything has been done yes. but only on western medicine terms. theories of medicine are different all over the world, the only difference on the scientifical approach is that it doesnt use methods that arent drilled with controlled expiriments. this makes it more safe, but takes up to much time. this kids condition was similar, though there is probably a difference between terry's old,and scarred brain tissue, and this childs brand new brain.

Plus, i still think starvation is brutal and is a form of torture, no matter how much morphine you get, id rather eat and die while im eating. people on death row get a last meal... it also makes me wonder, if the pope were in the same condition, would they dispatch him in the same manner?...contraversy is just a money making scheme.

[shaolinstylee]

Some debated that she prob. couldn't even feel hunger pains..

[master splinter]

you can suffer in many different ways from hunger, not just stomach pain. you are weakened to a pitiful state, your body deteriorates. one would bite their own tongue off.

[zachsan]

see this is the point, she was already in a pitiful state, way before they removed her tube.

if you know of a non-western treatment that will rescue someone from a persistent vegetative state, you should let someone know about it. otherwise we just have to do what we can.