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**Inevitable** · 03-03-2006, 01:44 AM

bl does bring up some good points though, the society may be brittle but its the best way for the goverment to keep its control over all the people

**zachsan** · 03-03-2006, 11:17 AM

Exactly. Why some of us think that's a good thing, I have no idea.

**onesp1ng** · 03-03-2006, 02:24 PM

Where does that come from, that mentality? Communism didn't always exist. Although the population has increased, there was another political party present after the fall of the qing dynasty. That government was eventually booted out and moved to Taiwan. Why does a country that is over populated NEED communism? Is it because we haven't witnessed any other controlling party in China throughout our lives, and so conclude that what "works" is necessary? BL said, " I don't think u guys realize in actuality how hard it's gotta be to control that many ppl who are suffering both natural elements and dire shortage of just about everything." Aren't the shortages she's mentioned and suffering at least a partial result of communism, as well as the various Chinese monarchies that existed over many centuries? When people appear to be "pseudo" proponents of communism without a full understanding of it's ramifications, it's very odd to me. Of course I'm no Chinese history scholar or political scientist, so it'll be intersting to know what you guys think about this.

**tetsumaru** · 03-03-2006, 03:35 PM

I shat myself when I read your post, Onesp1ng. Because it is true what you say. I feel that just because it works doesn't mean it the best way to do things....hey slavery worked! Fighting terrorism "worked"! Shaolin village is still alive! (or is it?) remaking old TV shows into movies "works"!

wake the F U C K up......

**zachsan** · 03-03-2006, 04:46 PM

BL said, " I don't think u guys realize in actuality how hard it's gotta be to control that many ppl who are suffering both natural elements and dire shortage of just about everything." Aren't the shortages she's mentioned and suffering at least a partial result of communism, as well as the various Chinese monarchies that existed over many centuries?

More importantly (to me), who decided that, difficulty aside, the main goal of the government should be to "control" those people?

**LeiYunFat** · 03-03-2006, 06:00 PM

Governement is and always was a form of control. The extent to which this control extends to is the issue...

In this case, having a bias, I find it wrong that governement dictate what you can and cannot believe...in terms of something as personal as religion, which is subjective anyway.

**onesp1ng** · 03-03-2006, 06:17 PM

well, I've come across that kind of rhetoric before, and yeah it's the whole "you need to control people due to the high population" thing, which I just don't get. Sometimes people need to be handled, sure, but controlled? And it'd be interesting to know if Chinese actually acquired this self degregating outlook, in effect saying, "hell, there's just so many of us that we need communism, cause nothing else can do the job. we should live like this and accept it." OK, many people live with it and accept it, there're also people that are communist and believe in the party's views, but I've never heard a Chinese say they are partial to the values of communism because of the countries population problem.

**LeiYunFat** · 03-03-2006, 08:43 PM

I think what was meant by BL was that Communism evolved in the right conditions and took root, just like it did in Russia. However, her logic is flawed in that since it "worked" at the time, it is therefore the correct way for them to live now...

And I don't know if I should just let it go or get offended by that.

**Inevitable** · 03-04-2006, 04:38 AM

i'ld like to see another party try to overthrow the government and bring on a new regime, but thats called treason apparently

**LeiYunFat** · 03-04-2006, 12:59 PM

Not if you win.

**Inevitable** · 03-05-2006, 06:25 AM

thats if you win, alot of the older folks there will think of the current goverment fine and will not bother trying to change, its all the youths that will make a difference, which is most likely why the government is trying to block all the "negative" input... trying to brainwash the new generation

**blooming tianshi lotus** · 03-05-2006, 04:43 PM

"control" is probably misleading... I meant that as far as keeping order so that ppl can be fed and recources are moved and shared effectively .. if that's what's had to happen, it just was... and it blew me away recently to admit to myself that what happened to shaolin was one of those things.... saad sad stuff but we're talking a rapidly growning 1.3 Billion hungry ppl!! "What if " questions about what 'should have ' happened differently and the outcomes of that aren't exactly serving much.
Step 1. Shut ppl up long enough to keep ppl alive long enough to execute step 2.
Step 2. Suck up to countries with money and get our feet in door.
Step 3. take over and make the bastards suffer.

cheers

**onesp1ng** · 03-05-2006, 05:37 PM

Hmmm, I think I see what you're saying.

**blooming tianshi lotus** · 03-05-2006, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by LeiYunFat

Despite my better judgement, I went ahead to read your post, BL (incase you haven't realized yet, you're on my ignore list.)

Basically, you're saying that it's okay for people to blindly follow a single idea because they are having hard times? I called them sheep. And as far as that goes, it's true. You said so yourself, I believe...

But I don't know. One second you sound like you're attacking me for being condecending, the next, you're implying the same things I've said...

no actually, I didn't realise. aand I have no idea what you mean!...

As for what happened Sp1ng, there's not a whole lot to tell but nearly everywhere I went this time it was reeeally really cold and 'they' ( the natives) were working waay harder than yoiu'd want to believe is reasonable and their accoms were horrible and under furnished and amenetied and they were reeeeeally poor

... and I wasn't ...
it was sad ok.
ok.