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Shaolin Wahnam Institute Redux: Wong Kiew Kit

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  • #31
    mortal- if I was gay, I might like that walking through me bit...I didn't want to bring that up but yeah, that's a doozy.

    one of his sifus already threatened me here on russbo, which I though was pretty funny, then I saw his hilarious "combat form." He is DEADLY, lol...
    "Arhat, I am your father..."
    -the Dark Lord Cod

    Comment


    • #32
      hey, for all we know, the guy can kick ass. being a con artist and being a tough mother****er are not mutually exclusive. sure his forms and uniforms look funny, but there's no reason to assume that he follows the technique he teaches. maybe he's saving the good stuff for the millionaire students...

      Comment


      • #33
        I'm so excited that this is coming around again......
        practice wu de

        Comment


        • #34
          What a guy! Millionaires only, for the poor little chinese fellow!

          Maybe he can fight. That isn't the point. I am more focused on his supernatural skills and observations.

          I bet this dude could levitate. Now does he have enough chi to fly and still implement the dim mak while dispersing clouds?

          This guys is like a 36th level magic user with a weird chinese cloak plus 3, plus ten against clueless kungfu students.

          Comment


          • #35
            lol........

            Comment


            • #36
              Thank you! Thank you!

              I'll be here all week!

              Comment


              • #37
                WTF?

                There seems to be a lot of hatred for Sifu Wong here with little reason other than that he charges a lot for his intensive courses. It is my understanding that the charge for the course includes the air travel so its not really that expensive, you can also go to one of the classes around the world which are much cheaper, or train from a book which is very cheap.

                I would like to make several points in defence of Sifu Wong:

                1. Just because he is not grovelling before you to get more students doesnt mean he has a bad attitude. In fact if he has enough students that he does not have to then this is probably a good sign (in terms of his kung fu).

                2. I havnt had time to read the whole thread so im not sure (correct me if im wrong) but none of you seem to have actually trained with or attempted to practice any of Sifu Wong's kung fu. I dont see how you feel you are in a position to critisise his techniques.

                3. If you want to find out whether he is a fake then why not do as his books suggest and practice a simple chi kung exercise like 'lifting the sky' for 3 months and see if you can feel the chi. If not then thats fine dont train with him and dont pay him anything.

                4. I have never met a dissatisfied wahnam student and i have talked to a lot both in person and on the message boards (i am not suggesting that there are none, only that there are very few). Also the fact that you can have your money back after his courses if you are not satisfied suggests that most people must achive the aims of the course (or at least feel that they have done so).

                5. Another accusation is that he has some hipnosis skills and has every one under his control. Most wahnam students have not been taught personally by him but by the instructors and masters who are his students. I do not beleave it possible that people who are hipnotised to beleave they are achiving something are also then able to hipnotise others to beleave the same thing.

                6. Sifu Wong has never claimed that he can dispurse clouds (to my knowladge).

                7. The video at the start of this thread does not show people in free sparring trying to hurt each other, but shows them performing a sequence of pre-arranged movements. It also looks deceptivly gentle because (according to wahnam philosophy which i am not claiming to validate, i am only here to point out the weaknesses in others arguments because this seems to be rather one sided) they have performed force training and so do not need to hit hard externally to do a lot of damage, they were also trying to block every attack that was made for practice against opponents who might have iron palm and so would kill in one strike.

                As i say i am not directly supporting Sifu Wong but pointing out that the arguments carried against him so far are not sufficient to bring him down. If any one wants to gain a more balanced understanding i suggest that after reading this thread they have a look around on the wahnam web site or better still do some training with them and report back.

                Comment


                • #38
                  ooh fun.

                  Originally posted by EddyCarr
                  There seems to be a lot of hatred for Sifu Wong here with little reason other than that he charges a lot for his intensive courses. It is my understanding that the charge for the course includes the air travel so its not really that expensive, you can also go to one of the classes around the world which are much cheaper, or train from a book which is very cheap.
                  he does have books, which are cheap, and in those books and elsewhere he repeatedly emphasizes how important it is to train with a true master and not simply use the books. i agree with this general sentiment, but it makes the books seem, then, an awful lot like advertising, especially since he holds the basic opinion that his style is the only genuine or "safe" style to train in. if you read the book, you should train with a master, and the only good master to train with is someone from wahnam. the end result, if you follow his instructions, is paying for seminars. you can however enjoy his books without following his instructions.

                  1. Just because he is not grovelling before you to get more students doesnt mean he has a bad attitude. In fact if he has enough students that he does not have to then this is probably a good sign (in terms of his kung fu).
                  nobody wants him to grovel for students. we just want him to logically defend some of his supernatural claims and criticisms of others. read the thread in the forum archive.

                  2. I havnt had time to read the whole thread so im not sure (correct me if im wrong) but none of you seem to have actually trained with or attempted to practice any of Sifu Wong's kung fu. I dont see how you feel you are in a position to critisise his techniques.
                  you don't have to have trained with someone to criticize them. if they are making claims, it's their job to back them up with proof. not your job to invest time and money to investigate them.

                  3. If you want to find out whether he is a fake then why not do as his books suggest and practice a simple chi kung exercise like 'lifting the sky' for 3 months and see if you can feel the chi. If not then thats fine dont train with him and dont pay him anything.

                  4. I have never met a dissatisfied wahnam student and i have talked to a lot both in person and on the message boards (i am not suggesting that there are none, only that there are very few). Also the fact that you can have your money back after his courses if you are not satisfied suggests that most people must achive the aims of the course (or at least feel that they have done so).
                  these are both examples of what is called the pragmatic fallacy. "it makes people feel better so it must be genuine". this is a logical mistake because one assumes that the specific practice in question is the reason they are feeling better; in other words, there's no control and no placebo. waving around your arms for a few minutes every day will make you feel better. the trick is to prove that WKK's method somehow is different, or better - claims which he makes - and such proof does not exist.

                  5. Another accusation is that he has some hipnosis skills and has every one under his control. Most wahnam students have not been taught personally by him but by the instructors and masters who are his students. I do not beleave it possible that people who are hipnotised to beleave they are achiving something are also then able to hipnotise others to beleave the same thing.
                  he may or may not have some skill with hypnosis, but that doesn't really have much to do with the claims he makes. i don't know anyone who has said that the reason he has so many students is hypnosis; simply people who have mentioned that maybe he has some skill with it.

                  6. Sifu Wong has never claimed that he can dispurse clouds (to my knowladge).
                  that knowledge can be improved upon. read the forum archives.

                  7. The video at the start of this thread does not show people in free sparring trying to hurt each other, but shows them performing a sequence of pre-arranged movements. It also looks deceptivly gentle because (according to wahnam philosophy which i am not claiming to validate, i am only here to point out the weaknesses in others arguments because this seems to be rather one sided) they have performed force training and so do not need to hit hard externally to do a lot of damage, they were also trying to block every attack that was made for practice against opponents who might have iron palm and so would kill in one strike.
                  as a two-man drill that's fine. maybe a little funny looking, but fine. i have read on WKK's websites, however, that this is taped free sparring between two of his students.
                  Last edited by zachsan; 01-05-2005, 10:12 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by EddyCarr
                    There seems to be a lot of hatred for Sifu Wong here with little reason other than that he charges a lot for his intensive courses. It is my understanding that the charge for the course includes the air travel so its not really that expensive, you can also go to one of the classes around the world which are much cheaper, or train from a book which is very cheap.

                    I would like to make several points in defence of Sifu Wong:

                    1. Just because he is not grovelling before you to get more students doesnt mean he has a bad attitude. In fact if he has enough students that he does not have to then this is probably a good sign (in terms of his kung fu).

                    [COLOR=DarkRed]He IS groveling. His whole life is marketing kung fu.[COLOR=DarkRed]
                    2. I havnt had time to read the whole thread so im not sure (correct me if im wrong) but none of you seem to have actually trained with or attempted to practice any of Sifu Wong's kung fu. I dont see how you feel you are in a position to critisise his techniques.

                    I watched many many videos and saw his students at tourneys.
                    3. If you want to find out whether he is a fake then why not do as his books suggest and practice a simple chi kung exercise like 'lifting the sky' for 3 months and see if you can feel the chi. If not then thats fine dont train with him and dont pay him anything.

                    You CAN'T learn chi gung from a book. I personally don't beleive in feeling chi.
                    4. I have never met a dissatisfied wahnam student and i have talked to a lot both in person and on the message boards (i am not suggesting that there are none, only that there are very few). Also the fact that you can have your money back after his courses if you are not satisfied suggests that most people must achive the aims of the course (or at least feel that they have done so).

                    I have met many in my travels. To me that isn't the point. I am focused on him and what he teaches. Not clueless kungfu students opinions of him.

                    5. Another accusation is that he has some hipnosis skills and has every one under his control. Most wahnam students have not been taught personally by him but by the instructors and masters who are his students. I do not beleave it possible that people who are hipnotised to beleave they are achiving something are also then able to hipnotise others to beleave the same thing.

                    He has written some pretty ridiculuos things about chi gung. He said his master literally walked through a wall. That is just bull.

                    6. Sifu Wong has never claimed that he can dispurse clouds (to my knowladge).

                    I have heard that rumour for years I honestly can't tell you from where it is from.

                    7. The video at the start of this thread does not show people in free sparring trying to hurt each other, but shows them performing a sequence of pre-arranged movements. It also looks deceptivly gentle because (according to wahnam philosophy which i am not claiming to validate, i am only here to point out the weaknesses in others arguments because this seems to be rather one sided) they have performed force training and so do not need to hit hard externally to do a lot of damage, they were also trying to block every attack that was made for practice against opponents who might have iron palm and so would kill in one strike.

                    There is no one who could kill with one strike consistantly because they train iron palm. More mystical chinese propoganda. There 2 man form was weak no matter how you cut it. I know the moves are prearranged but the techniques are very weak. From what I have seen in the tourney's the other students forms aren't much different. And you do have to hit hard to do damage.
                    As i say i am not directly supporting Sifu Wong but pointing out that the arguments carried against him so far are not sufficient to bring him down. If any one wants to gain a more balanced understanding i suggest that after reading this thread they have a look around on the wahnam web site or better still do some training with them and report back.
                    You sound like a decent respectful person. Don't take my rebuttals as attacks. I don't want to bring him down or wish him any ill will. We have all been to the site. He is always putting down monks and other masters. I for one think even the young fake monks are far more skilled then him.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by zachsan

                      he does have books, which are cheap, and in those books and elsewhere he repeatedly emphasizes how important it is to train with a true master and not simply use the books. i agree with this general sentiment, but it makes the books seem, then, an awful lot like advertising, especially since he holds the basic opinion that his style is the only genuine or "safe" style to train in. if you read the book, you should train with a master, and the only good master to train with is someone from wahnam.
                      This is untrue, he does not say that the only good master to train with is one from wahnam. He also emphasises that a master is needed only for advanced techniques, simple ones such as lifting the sky are fine to learn from books you might just not get on as well as with a master. You ignored my comment about the classes rather than the seminars which are cheap.

                      Originally posted by zachsan

                      if they are making claims, it's their job to back them up with proof. not your job to invest time and money to investigate them.
                      Incorrect. It is not his job. He even provides methods for you to experience the chi for your self, if you want to know that much then the methods are there.

                      Originally posted by zachsan
                      these are both examples of what is called the pragmatic fallacy. "it makes people feel better so it must be genuine". this is a logical mistake because one assumes that the specific practice in question is the reason they are feeling better; in other words, there's no control and no placebo. waving around your arms for a few minutes every day will make you feel better. the trick is to prove that WKK's method somehow is different, or better - claims which he makes - and such proof does not exist.
                      You should not expect someone else to do an experiment to give such impirical evidence. It would require a very large sample and would reqire funding, Sifu Wong does not need to initiate such a project as he and his disiples already beleave in chi and since you (possibly) would not beleave the study and claim it as a hoax were he to be involved in it.

                      It is also worth remembering that even were such a piece of research to be done and it to support Sifu Wong it would be a long way from proving the existance of chi. You must remember that the impirical system itself is a fundimentally flawed system and that no amount of experience will ever prove the existance of something. What is needed in the end when searching for the truth of anything is faith. If you will not try the methods and so build up enough personal experience to have faith in the truth or untruth of the claims then why would you beleave in someone else's experience / abilities?

                      You say that waving your arms around for 15 mins a day would make you feel better. Do you do this?


                      Originally posted by zachsan
                      however, that this is taped free sparring between two of his students.
                      If that is so then i can offer no more explanations I am in no position to know good from bad kungfu just by looking.

                      The main thrust of your argument seems to be that you cannot be bothered to try the training and that someone else should 'prove' it for you. If you are this lazy / scared of taking risks then you are unlikly to get far in your training of any martial art and i can only wish you luck.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        the main thrust of your argument is that WKK has made claims, so therefore i should believe him, otherwise i'm lazy. you've outrightly said that you don't value empirical evidence, so in that case, you don't need proof of anything, and there is not much of a point in arguing with you. i humbly suggest however that a more rational approach would be much healthier, but it's your life. i also suggest that you read the forum archives, because you are very simply misinformed on some of these issues, for instance, his stance on other styles and masters, and his claims of supernatural abilities.

                        ...Sifu Wong does not need to initiate such a project as he and his disiples already beleave in chi...
                        you do not realize how right you are.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by zachsan
                          the main thrust of your argument is that WKK has made claims, so therefore i should believe him, otherwise i'm lazy.
                          I did not say this. I said that you should either train with him or do some training of your own in order to validate or invalidate the claims in your mind. At the moment you are defaulting to disbelif through lack of evidence which is a logical thing to do. However if you wish to gain a deeper understanding then you will need evidence to evaluate. Since it seems (for better or worse) that there will be no scientific demonstration forthcoming the only source of evidence will be personal experience, if you will not invest the time (which is fair enough) then you forfeit the right to argue with Sifu Wong's students who do have personal experience.

                          Originally posted by zachsan
                          you've outrightly said that you don't value empirical evidence, so in that case, you don't need proof of anything, and there is not much of a point in arguing with you.
                          Again this is untrue. I said that impirical evidence can never prove anything, which is true. I did not say i did not value it, clearly it can provide support for a theory, but it must be born in mind always that the support is on shaky foundations (pardon the pun). Its not that you dont need proof of anything but that unfortunatly you can never have proof of anything and so it all comes down to faith. Again i remind you that this is not relevant only for people who claim to be able to feel chi but also to those who beleave in elephants and houses and cars.

                          Originally posted by zachsan
                          you are very simply misinformed on some of these issues, for instance, his stance on other styles and masters, and his claims of supernatural abilities.
                          This is true, however i couldnt find any direct quotes from Sifu Wong, possibly because the old wahnam website is not there anymore, although i admittidly did not look very hard (im really tired, ill look harder tomorrow). Following the principle I state above, since you claim to have evidence and i do not i have no right to argue on this point.

                          I suggest that after your reply to this we leave it there. I dont think we will get anywhere by continuing. However i do please ask you in your reply not to intentionally twist my words or say that i said things which i did not eg "you don't value empirical evidence". I also humbly suggest that you practice lifting the sky if not for 3 then for 1 month. Even if it isnt for real then at least you will have data on which to base your assumptions and if it is then imagine what you have gained.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Lets look at the facts, shall we, just for giggles and ****s. And, because I'm bored right now. Actually got all the server stuff done. For today.

                            Quotes are from the WKK home page.

                            Fourth Generation Successor of the Venerable Jiang Nan of the Southern Shaolin Monastery
                            It seems to be a well known fact, even acknowledged by Shi Yong Xin, who has no reason to lie about this, that the so called Southern Shaolin Temple is a myth. No evidence for its past existance, exists. All righty then.

                            When asked why he doesn't accept students who have HIV or AIDS:

                            I have addressed the questions of AIDS and HIV before in my question-answer series, the latest being in Answer 12 of the April 1999 (Part 2) issue. Firstly, please note I have never mentioned that chi kung, kungfu and taijiquan are not suitable for AIDS patients and those who are HIV positive. In fact, I believe that chi kung will provide the best chance of overcoming AIDS.

                            But I mention that the intensive courses I offer are not suitable for AIDS patients and those with HIV positive. This is because I do not know enough of the effect of chi on the HIV (virus). In particular I am not sure whether the chi resulting from my chi kung course might activate the HIV, thereby causing AIDS.

                            As I have always maintained that a good teacher must be both professional and responsible, I would not be practising what I preach should I accept AIDS or HIV students. Teaching something which I do not fully understand is being unprofessional, subjecting students to possible risk is being irresponsible.

                            The onus of professionalism and responsibility rests with the teacher, not with the students. In other words, even if students with AIDS or HIV approach me saying, "Sifu, we know the risks and are willing to bear them", I would not accept them into my courses. It is like pupils telling their teacher, "Sir, we accept the risk of drowning, but please let us swim in the sea".

                            I also have a responsibility towards other students. Unlike in hospitals or special centres where safety measures are adequate, there are none in my courses. If an accident happens, such as during a self-manifested chi movement exercise an AIDS patient falling onto a healthy student and unwittingly stretching him, the former might pass on the HIV virus to the latter.
                            OK, most definitely a severe lack of understanding of the disease process. But, that's ok, I don't hold that against anyone. Not understanding something, and letting people know that, in my opinion, is a good thing. And an honorable one. But I would suggest that there might be other reasons why people with AIDS have been prohibited. (Other than the fact that they might not be allowed into Malaysia). Besides, it kind of goes against his requirement to abide by the so called Ten Shaolin rules that he lists, as a mandatory rule structure for his prospective students:


                            Obliged to be humane, compassionate and spread love, and to realize everlasting peace and happiness for all people.
                            OK, maybe people with HIV and AIDS aren't considered to be "people" in Malaysia. I guess I have a lot to learn. But let's move on. What can we learn in WKK's few day course?


                            You will learn in a few days what many others may not acheived in 20 years! It is hard to beleive it. Let me give you just one or two examples.

                            Try asking politely some masters and advanced students whether they can tap energy from the cosmos and direct it to wherever they will in their body, such as to their hands, feet and stomach. Probably they will tell you that this was a serect art of great masters, and is probably lost now although it is mentioned in books.

                            Ask them whether they could generate their own internal energy flow, or develop internal force. Anybody who has access to classical texts of internal arts would have known these are fundamental skills, but unfortunately not many people have these skills nowadays. You are going to learn these skills in my intensive course. You can learn and experience the skills in a few days, but you have to practise conscientiously for at least a few months, if not years, before these skills become lasting.
                            Took me half a lifetime to learn medicine. Damn. To think I could have learned something worthwhile in a few days. And, instead of spending over one hundred fifty thousand dollars getting my education, I could have spent one thousand dollars, over a period of four days. And, look at what I could have done:

                            For someone who has been suffering from asthma, diabetes, cardiovascular disorders, cancer or any other chronic degenerative diseases, which he knows conventional treatment gives him little chance of recovery, and for which medical tests merely to confirm the illness is present, will cost him (or his insurance company) thousands of dollars, paying US$1000 to learn an art in just four days, an art which according to statictics gives him at least 60% chance of recovery if he continues to practice it for a few months, is very cheap.
                            Wow. OK, I ****ed up. Screwed up my life pretty damn well now, didn't I. Doug, his "most senior student in Europe", would probably agree with me. For with these skills, I would not have even had to go to a damn hospital. Not once in my life. I could have healed people from home. Doug wrote to WKK about "a patient":

                            Dear Sifu,
                            I got a call yesterday from M.A., the young mother from Alicante whose baby suffered from narrow arteries from the heart to the lungs as well as leaky ventricles in her heart. She was thrilled at the progress that the baby has made. The doctor couldn't beleive how good the baby looked. Her next checkup is August 21. She asked me if you would be kind enough to send energy to the baby again to ensure that no surgery will be necessary.
                            Medicine from home. Dammit. Imagine. I could have stayed in bed. In my pajamas. The ones with the feet attached. No running out to the ICU at three oclock in the morning to save some poor bastard's life. Could have just sent healing energy. Doug would be writing about me now. To all sorts of people.

                            And, look at the quality of care I could have offered people:

                            No one, including I or the best doctor, can gauranteee that his patients will recover, because recovery depends on other factors besides treatment. But I can say that at least 60% (actually closer to 80%) of those who suffered from so-called incurable diseases, regain good health after learning and practicing chi kung from me. I would not provide names because I respect the privacy of my students, but those genuinely concerned should have no difficulty finding out for themselves if they take some trouble to ask around.
                            Granting good health to those with incurable diseases. Wow.

                            I wonder if Doug knows Ross? (http://x.russbo.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1546). If not, maybe we should introduce them.

                            Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go practice lifiting the sky. I'm tired of having it continually fall on me.
                            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                            (more comments in my User Profile)
                            russbo.com


                            Comment


                            • #44
                              someone just brought a knife to a gun fight.

                              go outside, point at any cloud, and I bet in 10-15 minutes it will have moved. read the freaking thread before you comment. you just wasted a lot of your own time.

                              I tried WKKs chi leg. I was able to recreate it without lifting the sky, or swinging engorged veiny cock left to right.

                              My 65yr old mother was able to support both myself, and my brother in the same way his student did- together my brother and I were slightly in excess of 400lbs. She does not practice any form of chi kung. WKK passed this off as his student being able to do this because he had advanced chi kung skills.

                              He's a quack. "genuine" this, blah blah blah- he admitted he made up his cosmos sh!t all by himself. he is the grandmaster of what system exactly? Wahnam. More sh!t he made up himself. To be a grandmaster you have to inherit, officially, from your master, their style. WKK never even took any formal vows of discipleship- which he also admitted. His claim of being a 'Grandmaster' is laughable to any serious traditional master. His students are just as quacked. One of his sifus claims to be able to see energy, and said of Shi De Cheng, that he could see he had low energy levels...this guy also communes nightly with heavenly visitors. Have you seen their chi flow? It's a perfect example of group hypnosis, people jerking all around feeling "chi." It's simple...you want to believe yor hands are warm because of chi, the master suggests it, you agree...you 'feel' it.

                              They generate internal force so they don't need to hit hard...? What a heap.

                              We put the screws to WKK, and finally he came out and said the reason he won't test his abilities is he is "not ready." Then he has the balls to say elsewhere that people who hired him for the seminar have a right to see for themselves what they are getting. What they got was some fool pointing up at a cloud. He is not ready to test his abilities according to the scientific method, but he is ready to take your cheddar!!!!

                              Juxtapose this with someone like Yan Ming, a semi modern Shaolin monk amongst the many he and his students dissed routinely, who had no problem submitting to the scientific method, TWICE now...

                              Quack quack quack...
                              "Arhat, I am your father..."
                              -the Dark Lord Cod

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Here is a perfect example of his quackery:

                                Question 2 (asked by me)
                                What does distant chi transmission actually accomplish? What does it do? How is it measurable? Where is the newspaper article?



                                Answer 2 (WKK's own words)
                                Distant chi transmission accomplishes and does different things for different people in different situations. In my case I mainly use it to save lives. Its success or failure is measured by how well or badly it meets its purpose.
                                Here he unequivocably states he uses it to save lives...he continues...


                                For example, if a recipient still lives after distant chi transmission, although according to conventional medical opinion he was supposed to die, I would rightly consider that distant chi transmission has been successful.
                                This is a logical fallacy, and is an erroneous conclusion which can not possibly be reached by either party- for all WKK really knows, a mouse walked across the room and healed the receiver. It is just as likely.

                                Most people, understandably, may not accept my conclusion. Some may attribute his recovery to placebo effect, some to luck, some to natural remission or to any other things except the most logical and most rational answer.
                                I defy anyone to show me the rationality or logic of his conclusion. He does not understand the terms. Now we have a classic switch...he does not pursue a scientific understanding of his abilities, says as much, then he conducts an 'experiment.'



                                I did a public experiment on distant chi transmission in February 1989 in Malaysia. The experiment involving public members and its successful results were reported in all major English language and Chinese language newspapers in the country.
                                What experiment? Later, WKK says the 'experiment' was not scientific, yet he presents it as such, leaves it open for you to assume- but then clarifies to say the chi cloud dispersal was done in a scientific spirit. A newspaper simply records what they observe. They do not have any responsibility, nor any qaulification, to discuss the scientific merit of the claims being made. Were there any scientists on hand to witness this event? I doubt it.

                                To wit, if I had occassion to have a newspaper watch me point at a cloud and tell them I am dispersing it with my chi, they could run a story that says: "Arhat Disperses Cloud With Chi." That does not mean I actually used chi.

                                WKK was right to withdraw from our conversations, his students, ahem...his sifus were right to withdraw from this forum, as we played them all for the fools they are.

                                Question 4
                                Of all your abilities, it seems strange that the distant chi transmission would be the one thing tested scientifically, via participation of an independent newspaper. I have looked earnestly for the results of this test and these efforts have proven fruitless. Can you provide us the details of this test? What qualified the newspaper as a scientific body? Can you provide us with further insight into what made you choose distant chi transmission as a testable claim and not something more immediate?



                                Answer 4
                                You have misunderstood me again. The distant chi transmission was never intended to be tested scientifically in the way you interpret it. There were, for example, no formal hypothesis, no quantitative measurements and no elaborate mathematical equations.

                                However, we believe it was scientific in spirit. The newspaper, though not a scientific body, was independent, and the recipients of chi were chosen by them from public volunteers. The experiment was carried out over a month, and witnessed by the public.

                                Distant chi transmission was not chosen from a list of alternatives. It was a response to a request from a major Chinese language newspaper in Malaysia.
                                Last edited by arhat; 01-06-2005, 08:01 AM.
                                "Arhat, I am your father..."
                                -the Dark Lord Cod

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