Tendovaginitis in knee

[doc]

In another thread you mentioned having children. I'm going to assume that you're not in your teen years, like many of our viewers are, and tend to think that you probably in your thirties.

Welcome to "getting old", LOL. (Just wait until you get to my age...)

I know its frustrating. But these things can take months. Your injury might be more "extensive" than first realized, with a meniscal tear, some chondromalacia of the patella, or a more severe tear of the tendon than first realized (as opposed to just a strain). It's just going to take time, And as you get older, we tend not to bounce back from these injuries as fast as we did when we were younger.

Again, go slow. If you really are itching to get back into the gong fu, and I don't blame you, as I am also, do so, but pay attention to your body. When you're doing "too much", you'll feel the pain. Take it easy, start slow, build up slow, slow it down when it hurts, and eventually you will get there.

When I ruptured four cervical discs in my neck after my car accident, it took me a year of physical therapy and rehabilitation just to get the use of my left arm back. And, to be rid of most of the pain. Six, seven years ago, from near total paralysis, to, full function. But yet, my left arm is still smaller muscle wise than my right; I may never get that back. The point is, some things take time, and they don't heal as fast as we want them to.

Patience. You will get there. In two months, you'll probably forget that you even hurt the damn thing.

[searcher]

Finally I recovered. And while reflecting that lengthy process I believe that my initial theory was correct: It only got better when I started to train again.

After all, it is pretty hard to have a tendinitis at the upper side of the patella, but the knees are much more stressed when you start such a thing as Kung Fu training. SO they have to get habitated to it, at least that was it in my case.

Now I'm fine, and it got better when I started to train egain...

Thanks for your support and help!

[master splinter]

Sorry wrong subject.

[mbokohutu]

Finally I recovered. And while reflecting that lengthy process I believe that my initial theory was correct: It only got better when I started to train again.

After all, it is pretty hard to have a tendinitis at the upper side of the patella, but the knees are much more stressed when you start such a thing as Kung Fu training. SO they have to get habitated to it, at least that was it in my case.

Now I'm fine, and it got better when I started to train egain...

Thanks for your support and help!

You have to forgive doc. He is a western medicine doctor, so he is all about drugs and cutting people up. Doc may be interested in kung fu, but he doesn't know much about it.

I would guess your pain was due to misalignment of your body during practice. As you discovered, the only way to correct a misalignment of your body is to keep moving that part of the body until it becomes aligned and moves properly.

Don't be surprised if you develop all kinds of these types of ailments if you stick with kung fu. Kung fu makes a human body aligned. In the process of aligning the human body, the kung fu will point out or show where you are misaligned. Kung fu points out where you are misaligned by causing you pain.

All anyone has to do is fiddle with that part of their body, moving it in different ways, until they find out how they are moving in a misaligned way, then move the limb an an aligned way.

If a part of the body is misaligned, it can take months of thoughtful practice to figure out where the misalignment is and then correct it. It takes months for the body to grow the new connections that you are trying to establish by moving in an aligned way.

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Doc? It's too bad you never found the time to talk seriously to me. I could have taught you something about real kung fu.

I always thought you were just playing, and your new websites only confirm that opinion. You are rich and about money. Kung fu is just something you play at.

That is your right. But it is wrong of you to present yourself as someone who is knowledgeable about kung fu, because you are not.

[onesp1ng]

I would guess your pain was due to misalignment of your body during practice. As you discovered, the only way to correct a misalignment of your body is to keep moving that part of the body until it becomes aligned and moves properly.

Don't be surprised if you develop all kinds of these types of ailments if you stick with kung fu. Kung fu makes a human body aligned. In the process of aligning the human body, the kung fu will point out or show where you are misaligned. Kung fu points out where you are misaligned by causing you pain.

All anyone has to do is fiddle with that part of their body, moving it in different ways, until they find out how they are moving in a misaligned way, then move the limb an an aligned way.

i would have to agree with this, and it's why i'm a big proponent of practices like zifagong (aka 自发动功). but, i don't think a person has to necessarily figure it out, or find it, as you said, and then move the limb in an aligned way.

opening up the body correctly, stretching and moving naturally, to aquire full range of motion, will result in a natural alignment affect. basically it's not something that needs a lot of thought in order to occur.

in other words, a person could really get hurt by trying to align themselves, especially if he/she is a beginner and doesn't understand what they're doing. it should just happen naturally if your training properly.

of course, most people who train gong fu only train how to kick and punch. the wholistic, traditional chinese approach to training has been lost (or just completely overlooked) in much of the world.

[searcher]

The approach of getting more conciousness for your ody through kungfu training and aligning the body while practising, even over months and years, is what my theory was when my knee hurt.

The "holistic approch" of kungfu you mentioned is what I believe to be the true heart and center of kungfu and that is why I love and practise it! I belive this is one of the best things ever developed on earth.

[master splinter]

You have to forgive doc. He is a western medicine doctor, so he is all about drugs and cutting people up. Doc may be interested in kung fu, but he doesn't know much about it.

I would guess your pain was due to misalignment of your body during practice. As you discovered, the only way to correct a misalignment of your body is to keep moving that part of the body until it becomes aligned and moves properly.



All anyone has to do is fiddle with that part of their body, moving it in different ways, until they find out how they are moving in a misaligned way, then move the limb an an aligned way.

If a part of the body is misaligned, it can take months of thoughtful practice to figure out where the misalignment is and then correct it. It takes months for the body to grow the new connections that you are trying to establish by moving in an aligned way.

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Fiddle with what part of the body again?

You know, sometimes, a person can believe that they are helping themselves by performing exercises like this on some path to self realization, but i must say that i feel this idea is a fallace. I mean fallacy.

In order to learn how to heal yourself, or be healed, you must receive instruction. And guidance. Sometimes, people who don't know what they are doing, and claim to be healers of themselves, or others, can end up just hurting someone because they don't really know what they are doing.

Where did you learn you kung fu mbokohoto?

To the Original poster, im not a medical advisor, like Doc. But if you were injured before, anywhere along the spine hip or leg area, that could be the cause. If this is something that has developed over time, you may want to try doing some squats, i know it sounds contradictory, but your thighs support your knees, you can also try calf raises. If you want to go easy on the knees, You can sit on a chair and extend your legs and hold them there. You can also lay on your stomach and bend and raise your legs to a 90 degree angle this works the hamstrings out, you can lay on your side and raise your legs up to a 45 degree angle, this targets the adducter muscle, then the leg on the floor can be raised to work the abductor. . Try to stick with bodyweight, if you do squats, and allow the pressure to be fully absorbed by the thigh muscles. If you run a lot, try to cut down, and try other forms of cardio training.

Pu Bu, which is the way southern chinese martial artists say horse stance right? I think in the north they call it zhan zhuang, im not sure on that though. But i do know that when you are holding a horse stance, or any stance, your weight must be distributed evenly. if your knees are hurting, youre leaning forward too much, and not sinking your weight completely. Your thighs should be burning, not your knees. Sit back more.

Not saying this will fix you, but i feel that its either surgery, or physical therapy. Just offering my two cents. Ive had my fair share of injuries for the amount time ive been sparring/training.

[onesp1ng]

well, MS, i would say from a certain traditional chinese perspective, happeh is quite right.

having a person to guide and instruct you is best, of course, but if you understand the practice itself, the point, then anyone can do it by themselves.
progress may be slower, sure, but it's a natural occurance developed from letting the mind go, opening up the body, and just letting yourself do what you do naturally.

actually the mind can be a great obstacle to healing the body, but all a person really needs is gravity and motion. sure, the mind/intention/thought etc.. can be used by experienced practitioners, teachers, etc. but that's because they've understood how to do this through the instruction they've recieved and via the process of openning up their own bodies. with that said, again, if a beginner uses their thoughts and assumptions to align themselves or others, if could be, as you said, problematic.

in the past i've suffered from a pinched axillary nerve, torn rotary cuff, bursitis, and herniated cervical disc. plus knee problems, etc... i honestly never thought i'd actually be able to normally practice, let alone live normally, ever again. (and i'm usually a very sckeptical person myself.) but, results are results: the stuff i do now, without any pain, for many hours a day, is a simple testiment to that.

anyhow, i'm not going to get into a lengthy discussion of the topic of 'medical qigong' etc on here. but if you want to talk more about it, private message me. i'd be glad to discuss my understanding with you. basically we're talking about openning up the kua, meridian channels, making the body soft, and so forth.

[doc]

in the past i've suffered from a pinched axillary nerve, torn rotary cuff, bursitis, and herniated cervical disc. plus knee problems, etc... i honestly never thought i'd actually be able to normally practice, let alone live normally, ever again. (and i'm usually a

I don't want to take the wind out of the TCM sales here, as I don't "not believe" in it, but, be aware that the human body has great abilities to repair itself. With respect to pinched cervical nerves, one of the repair processes is for the bone to recanalize around the nerve, giving it more room, resetting the nerve's pathway through the bony structures, which eventually, over time, can result in obliteration of pain and other neurological symptoms.

What you describe is normal human healing processes, not necessarily the movement of qi through the meridiens. Whatever they end up being.

[master splinter]

well, MS, i would say from a certain traditional chinese perspective, happeh is quite right.

having a person to guide and instruct you is best, of course, but if you understand the practice itself, the point, then anyone can do it by themselves.
progress may be slower, sure, but it's a natural occurance developed from letting the mind go, opening up the body, and just letting yourself do what you do naturally.

actually the mind can be a great obstacle to healing the body, but all a person really needs is gravity and motion. sure, the mind/intention/thought etc.. can be used by experienced practitioners, teachers, etc. but that's because they've understood how to do this through the instruction they've recieved and via the process of openning up their own bodies. with that said, again, if a beginner uses their thoughts and assumptions to align themselves or others, if could be, as you said, problematic.

You can only learn a limited amount without a teacher.


Im familiar with opening the kua, opening the joints, directing energy etc.

WHat you are talking of reminds me of what is called "spontaneous movement meditation" but still this requires previous training and experience, muscle memory. etc.

A schizophrenic who learns kung fu from dragonball z movies is not one who i see as worthy of any kind of recognition... And i dont have a problem with giving respect where its due, its just that i dont agree with the whole self learning thing. I believe that learning different systems is the only way to understand the underlying principles, once you can grasp them.

The chi gung i do is mostly for fighting, all of the chi gung i was taught has applicable fighting movements. brush block sweep, etc.

[onesp1ng]

what you described is exactly qi moving through the meridians, you've just used different terms to do so. and i'm not tring to pitch anything, it's not a sale i'm interested in.

what we're talking about here is simple: speeding up the bodies natural ability to repair itself. exercise helps, as do other practices.

[doc]

No, what I'm describing is the process of bone "recanalization". Bone constantly remodels, it reabsorbs, it rebuilds, all depending upon the stresses put upon it. So, yes, Happeh is correct, but not for the reasons he espouses. The bones in your skeleton rebuild constantly, depending upon the stresses put upon them (ie, how you use them). And when you have a situation, such as a cervical nerve that is "pinched" (ie, compressed between a disc and the bony vertebral structure) the area of bone that the nerve is pressed against resorbs (dissolves), and rebuilds. The end result: a pinched nerve that eventually finds itself in a new unrestricting bony canal.

The same process occurs during hard qi gong exercises; repeated stress to a bony structure results in more calcified structure being built. Thus, Su Gong's thick bony head (from years of striking it), or Master Pan's overly bony knuckles (from repeated fist trauma during training). Or, a Muay Thai's lower leg; the strength and thickness of these guy's tibia's is just amazing.

Bone resorption, regrowth and remodeling is a normal physiologic process.

[onesp1ng]

again, what you've described are the mechanics and/or results of qi movement within the body, it's attempt to rebalance patterns of disharmony, etc. what i'm pointing at are the methods that promote those natural physiologic processes.

anyhow, this is why i am reluctant to speak at length about it here. most people just don't get the connection.

[doc]

I'm one of them.

What I'm saying is purely a physical pressure phenomena: exert pressure in an area against bone tissue, it erodes, and reshapes. Pure physics and physiology. But very effective towards dealing with musculoskeletal stresses.

[master splinter]

Ive never conditioned my tibia, i think that just sounds painful. but i know that its a true fact, that it can be done. Though i do question its usefullness to a certain extent, especially because the bone is so long, they say the softest thing cannot be snapped, sure, iron is strong, but if you can bend it back and forth, it will eventually snap, since iron is not flexible. The human skeleton is an absolutely amazing mechanism, if only we could mimic this type of technology in our building structures, i could imagine virtually indestructible buildings that repair themselves.

No, guys, guys guys, you arent getting me... Happeh needs to seek help. Period. I have forgiven him and forgotten his bullshit enough times just to have him walk all over my courtesies. Sometimes people dont deserve second chances, they have to earn them.

Onesping, qi is such a broad term in the chinese language isnt it? Everything has qi. In qi gong and tcm you will find the terms, yin chi, and yang chi. These two concepts are used to quantify and identify all things which they permeate, which is basically everything in this dimension.Qi gong is meant to give you a better understanding of your own chi, the chi which is within your human body. Dedicated practice of qi gong systems will bring about awareness and sometimes biofeedback, sensation that can be felt, such as tingling, pressure, etc.

The ultimate purpose of my qi gong practice is to better familiarize myself with chi, and to use it in my fighting movements to focus and harmonize my mind, body, spirit and intent, i also use it for healing, and meditation. Not only can qi gong and other form of exercise show you new levels and peaks, it also shows you your limits.

The old textson chi gung, will emphasize not to let the chi escape through the body in uncontrolled spasms, this can lead to chi deviation, also, unguided practice can also lead to qi deviation. In ancient literature this is know as, "walking in the realm of the devil"


The chi must always be sunk to the dantien, traditional literature state that this is the main goal and essence of chi gung, that is the first step. If you have no dantien, you have no chi gung. Plain and simple. All of your practice will be empty.


Opening the lowest basin, also called the kua, or lowest kua, is opening the dantien, once the practioner opens up the dantien, and chi can flow freely from the earth into the legs, up into the heavens, and then back down into the practioners body, real practice can be achieved.

This is why old kung fu masters would require their students to hold stances for years before they taught them anything, this was to ensure that the kua was open, and that practice would not be empty.

Tcm and chi gong will not work for anyone, until they find their dantien, and learn how to manipulate chi within themselves. That is why, when chi gong healing is used, the patient is taught basic forms of chi gung, or tai chi first. Herbology, acupuncture, massage and chi gung is the treatment philosophy of chinese medicine. Chi gung, is the most powerful aspect of the whole system, if it can be grasped..