Northern China Shaolin Martial Arts Academy in Si Ping / Ji Lin

[technojesus]

Franklin you have been of great help!
thank you SO much!

[technojesus]

eh franklin, one more quick question....
what is there for fruit at this place? i'm something of a fruit addict....i eat atleast 5 apples a day(along w/ other fruits)! applse are my favorit! lol

thanks again!

[swirlingchaos]

Hi Russbo,

I just want to add my 2 cents to what franklin has already discussed. I have also been to the academy and franklin is giving you good information that completely jives with my experience. I went for 2 months in mid august - mid october 2002, 2 years before franklin, and it sounds like most of it has not changed much. I will add some tidbits to what franklin has expounded on though, and try and give a bit rounder perspective.

Your experience will depend partially on what you expect. I was pleasantly surprised not to be assraped and left for dead in an alley before even getting to the academy, so i got my money's worth in spades. If you expect to have the death touch taught to you in the first week then you arent going to like what you get.

As stated, it seems to be 'real' shaolin with a bit of performance wushu thrown in. The forms were real forms, with very little in the way of skipping about like they do in wushu. I learned wu bu quan, lian huan quan, ing shou gun, and part of a nine section whip form (crammed in as a fun gift since i was about to leave, enough to give me some basics). Wu bu quan is standard basic of course, and ing shou gun looks pretty much identical to the video i have seen on this site (except its being performed by beginners not by a monk like in the clip). I have never seen a clip of lian huan quan so i cant compare what i learned to what 'real' might be. Ive heard that its a standard beginner form though, and have seen it listed on a number of sites.

The vast majority of students are young, pre- or early twenties, so there's the standard arrogances and attitudes and idiocies you find in youth. Mostly this is left alone, with little in the way of character adjustment, unless someone is stupid enough to do something like talk back to a teacher, which i actually witnessed. He was lucky not to be shown the door right there, and just got punished harshly as he deserved. The dumbass. (pushup position for a few hours, and horse stance for a few hours after he collapsed)

There are politics there, as you will find most places. For example, I heard at first that the teachers were allowed to whack students with sticks, then there was an 'incident' where someone complained to someone higher up and the stick thing fell out of practice. I've heard that it is back, but i doubt its more than a tap. When i was there the teachers used a small twig as a pointer to get you to move your hands or feet into place, but i dont think they ever actually hurt anyone. There were a lot of whiners who passed through and wanted things handed to them, so stories tended to get exaggerated, and i have no doubt that someone was just stirring up trouble. You might get whacked, but not beat on.

Teachers passed through as well. I was there when Wang Sifu up and disappeared one night. A few weeks later one of the students, Laura, left the academy to marry him and start their own school, which i have seen listed on this site. It was kind of scandalous, i suppose, but i was neither one of Wang Sifu's students, nor particularly close with Laura, so it didnt affect me one way or the other. Wang Sifu's students had to get divvied up amongst the other teachers though, so they werent very happy about being left in the lurch. I believe that my teacher has also moved on from the academy in past years, so its hardly a rare thing, though i doubt that most teachers leave in as spectacular a fashion.

The academy was in a time of flux then, since the new dormatory was being built as well as a new training hall. When i arrived the dorm didnt even have a roof, and now its pretty nice looking. And i'm sure there were a lot more things going on then as well that i knew nothing about, so feelings in both staff and students were fairly tense at times.

For security, i kept everything i had that was really valuable locked in my suitcase behind a combo lock. We had workers installing things like plumbing for the radiators and things like that at the time, so you couldnt be sure you wouldnt come back to your room hanging wide open, so you made sure to keep stuff hidden. These were just workers from the village, not staff, and they could have pretty sticky fingers. My roommate was there from before everyone had moved into the new dorm, and the workers stole almost all of his stuff in the transition, but it was probably mostly his own fault for not keeping track of it.

Really, most of the stuff i just talked about would not affect newer students. Its just a little background though, and may explain some of the negative reviews i have heard.

Scenery. You start your warmup with a run down and up the hill, so you use the scenery there. and they sometimes make you run up or down or crawl up or down the 350+ stairs on the side of the hill (down sucks!). Otherwise, you go for the occasional walk and see many many many more sunrises than most people are used to seeing. Its pretty though.

Chores. There were none when i was there, but i left before the snow hit too. Otherwise, yer too busy for chores. Lights out at 8:30pm, and thats because you WANT to go to bed. I took siesta between lunch and afternoon class too.

Food. It wasnt the best, but generally edible. Bring a good supply of Immodium, and learn to trust your instincts. If something looks pretty unappetizing, then it probably is. They may have fixed the food since i was there too. There were numerous complaints, so i imagine it was improved somewhat.

Bathrooms. Western toilets, but put paper in the bin beside. Buy your own tp.

Atmosphere. Well, what do you want? If you are there to train, and meditate, and get away from it all, then you can do that. If you are there to get drunk and party with people from all over the world, then you can do that too, in a limited sense. The academy started cracking down on people that were partying too much when i was there, and imposed limits on staying in town and hitting the bars and imposed a curfew, etc. But that was when students were staying at the "massage parlour" in siping on weekends for cheap rubntugs, so its rather understandable why these limitations were imposed. I think they informed the whorehouses not to service the foreigners any more as well. So if you are looking for that sort of thing you are going to have a few hoops to jump through to meet your goals.

IF you are there for training, a lot will depend on you. If you had prior experience, you will learn faster. If you ask questions, even with sign language, you will be shown more. If you practice, you will learn more. if you sit in your room, you will not, and they will eventually give up on you. Many people are there for training and are pretty jaded about the number of young idiots that come through there, unwilling to work for it, so are less friendly. Most are pretty welcoming.

Training. Training is difficult. Physically exhausting. Technically, not so bad. Fairly traditional, meaning generally you might get one or 2 moves a day for a new form, fairly slow advancement. If you are flexible you will have an easier time. If you can run, you will have an easier time. If you have prior experience, you will have an easier time. Its up to you.

Weather. When i was there it was sunny every day until it snowed, but i imagine that it is like anywhere else and has standard weather patterns. Its similar in climate to toronto ontario, maybe a bit cooler. I heard there were sometimes dust clouds carried over from the sand storms in the desert in spring but i dont know much about that.

Instructors are young, and talented. Language is a barrier, but you can do a lot with monkey see monkey do. If you want to know how you should be breathing and where you should be putting your chi and what the texture of a certain move is supposed to be, then you will waste a lot of time trying to pry that information out of the language wall, and may get nothing for it anyway.

Optional classes. I never went to many, and they were mostly a waste of time. If you want acupuncture, take a 4 year course in california or vancouver. Dont imagine you will get anything out of classes at the academy. Language classes may help a bit, but the Pimsler tapes and cds worked great for me, so id advise something like that. and bring a dictionary.

Easy to get there. Well, though the 100USD is pretty steep, it may be worth doing if you arent comfortable travelling in a country where you dont know the language and most people you meet wont know yours. On the way BACK to the airport, id recommend a taxi, since you dont have to worry about much there. I was pretty concerned with actually beign able to get to the academy though, so i used the pickup option and didnt regret it. (it does hurt though, since its about 5 times the price it should be.)

Worth the money? I thought so. I learned a lot, though i would recommend video taping everything as soon as you get back or while you are there, so you dont forget it. I spent about $7000 canadian, grand total, which was about $5000 usd. That includes my $2000 CAD airfare, and about $1000-CAD in souvenirs alone. Pretty good, i thought. My main reason was to go and train and relax and destress from work, which made it pretty ideal. You dont need to think about anything, since your meals and everything is taken care of. In fact im thinking of going back this spring. I need a break from work again, and i want to relearn all that ive forgotten.

In conclusion, in my experience the place was decent. Its not a scam at least, and its a pretty worry free environment. You arent catered to, but you dont have to worry about constant bill payments or wonder where your next meal is coming from. Its hard, but generally worth it. I cant tell if its better than the place Doc is at, but i havent been there, so who knows.

Hope this helped (sorry for the massive length)

Terry.

[doc]

OK, you bring up two points, which basically prove what I've already said.

First, weather. I've said that it's damn cold up there, (it's far from Shaolin), and you've proved it. Snowing in mid-October. LOL. That's what happens up in Siping. I'll inform you, that the weather is not "like Toronto". It's colder. I've been to Harbin in February, which is a little more north of where this school is, and it's MUCH colder than what you guys get in Toronto.

Second, the training. I've been told by numerous characters in the Shaolin area, that the training at this school is sub par. That it is the typical wushu type school, one of thousands, which you can find all over China.

The forms were real forms, with very little in the way of skipping about like they do in wushu. I learned wu bu quan, lian huan quan, ing shou gun, and part of a nine section whip form (crammed in as a fun gift since i was about to leave, enough to give me some basics). Wu bu quan is standard basic of course.

Two months, and that's all that they taught you? Wu Bu Quan is taught in my school in Vegas, in one day. Lian Huan Quan is taught to the "shaolin master wanna be's" from a huge well known US school, in a day, when they do their annual grandmaster worship journey to Dengfeng. Ing Shou Gun is a good form, that takes about a week to learn. I would suggest, that, in two months, you really should have learned a lot more. These forms that you mention, are really basic. So basic, that in all my years of going to Shaolin, the monks never bothered teaching me Wu Bu Quan and Lian Huan Quan (they're basically stance and position training)

This school gets constant attention solely because it has a prominent web site. I still would recommend that if people want real traditional gong fu, an immersive China interaction, and a better training experience, that they go to the source. There are real masters, from the "old pre-Yongxin Shaolin", with good schools, in the Dengfeng area. If you want a Shaolin experience, go to Shaolin.

I'm not putting down what you've done. I'm just suggesting, for the god knows how many other people who email me about this place, that you could have went to Vegas (or some of the other US schools) and learned a hell of a lot more in two months, without the dysentery. But, I'm glad that you took the opportunity to experience China. It's an experience that few will have, and that most cherish.

[swirlingchaos]

I've said that it's damn cold up there, (it's far from Shaolin), and you've proved it. Snowing in mid-October. LOL. That's what happens up in Siping. I'll inform you, that the weather is not "like Toronto". It's colder. I've been to Harbin in February, which is a little more north of where this school is, and it's MUCH colder than what you guys get in Toronto.

Well, i'm about an hour north of toronto, and we had weather this year that put the temperature down to -37C (-35F) before wind chill , so i hardly think they are much colder than that! LOL But im not here to argue with you; it IS cold. Damn cold. At the same time, this means no nasty malaria mosquitoes. They dont go that far north.

If it helps about the speed of learning, i was learning the tai chi when i was there too, and relearned the 24 in about a week, then learned the 42, the 48, and the jian, then moved on to a baji form. Which was much much too fast, but they allowed it. Most people that attend the kung fu classes are gimpy foreigners with no experience, so i imagine they are used to having to dumb it down a fair bit. And really, it was only the few hours in the morning that we did forms, since the rest of the day was taken up with basics and sanda and wushuey stuff or whatever. I thought it was a bit slow, but not terribly so. *shrugs*

Meh. whatever. I'm pretty occupied learning the kung fu i have at home. Im not a 'forms collector' nor terribly concerned with wringing the 'secrets of shaolin' out of anyone. I go mostly for the vacation. And hey, at least its legit, yknow?. Sure there are better places, but there are a lot worse ones too. But i could possibly be persuaded to go to actual shaolin this time, if its not too much of a pain to do so.

So where do i find the actual information on this school you go to and how to go about getting there anyway? Are you going again this spring? I've explored this draconian website for hours on end and still cant find it. Obviously im looking in the wrong places and need to be pointed to the right threads...

Thanks.

Terry.

[mortal]

The monks here take one month to learn wubu chuan.


Doc you never learned these basic sets? I'm suprised. Can I ask what you were taught instead?

[doc]

The kids (monks?) take years to learn a few forms. That's the way the schools are for the domestic Chinese. Remember, some of these kids stay at these schools learning a "career", like we foreigners go to grammar school and high school, in preparation for college. This is their SOLE education, what few years they spend in these schools. The concept of teaching for them is different. They tend to be poor students, who learn solely by repetition. The "understanding" and "comprehension" level is poor. We are not talking about smart people here, in fact, the majority that I've run into are downright stupid. I don't hold it against them, they come from poor absolutely completely uneducated peasant families, who have no chance at all in life. (It's SAD). It is expected that they learn the applications of these forms by doing them over and over again (do it 10,000 times does come from somewhere; that's the way it is), as their ability to comprehend is severely limited. In fact, from my observations, the emphasis in for these domestic Chinese students is being able to perform these things perfectly. Understanding the moves and the applications, is not an issue, nor is it generally taught anymore. If you get the chance, read, in these Forums, in the Shaolin Journals section, my Journal entries from the one before last. I think I describe some training days I had with the Shaolin Temple Wushu Guan performance team. It's eye opening, and, very relevant to this conversation. Find it and read it.

Back to our little ditty here. Foreigners tend to learn much faster, and they not only learn much faster, because their educational levels (and therefore learning ability), is much higher, but their inborn intelligence tends to be superior. They also tend to demand more knowledge for the time that they are there.

Which is the reason why some schools in China are better for foreigners than others. Few foreigners are stupid enough to spend three years in some Chinese domestic school to learn three forms. Unless you've got a lot of time to waste, and you think you're going to live a hundred years, it's not exactly time well spent. There's a lot of other things in life to learn. These domestic Chinese kids have no other options in life; westerners usually do. This concept is one reason why some schools are good for foreigners, some bad. The horror stories that you hear from foreigners about their training experience partially arise from this concept.

I did not learn Wubuquan when I first started (I know it now); it's a horribly basic stance form, in my opinion, purely preparation for the important stuff, which more time should be spent on. I first learned the complete traditional versions of Shao Hong Quan, Ing Shou Gun, and Mei Hua Dao. I then learned Ing Quan, Tong Bei Quan, Da Dao, Xiao Lohan, Yi Lu Da Lohan, Er Lu Da Lohan, Jiao Jie Bian, Da Hong Chuan (traditional, not modern), Chi Xing Tong Long Quan, and the more modern Shaolin based Tong Long Quan. I also learned Nan Quan, which is not a traditional Shaolin form (it's a southern form). In Qi Gong, I learned Ba Dua Jin, Lohan Drangoon, and the Bone Marrow washing qi gong. I never learned Lian Huan Quan, and I have no desire to. I think that's all of them. One of the things that I focused on over the years, is learning the traditional applications in these forms, of which there are many. My desire was not to be some performance animal; I was more interested in learning and understanding the art.

I remember a good deal of it, surprisingly, since I've been ill for the past two years, and have disappointingly not practiced much. I hope to pick them back up soon, once I get my lungs back into shape. These past few years have not been friendly to me.

[pazman]

I've never learned wubuquan. My first time going to China I learned the jibengong, tongbiquan, and yinshougun in about ten days of training. Then again, I had previous experience, lots of attention from Decheng, and the expectation that I was going to practice these over the next year until went to China again (which I did).

[mortal]

Thanks for the response.

I know wubu and leihan chuan seem pretty boring. I just look at them as a great exercise. If you could do those focused with good intent they are great training tools. Also if someone can't do these forms well why bother with anything else?

I found when I learned forms at yanmings and hengxins we learned them slowly and I never forgot them. Then when I went to lipengs we learned them quickly, like one a week. I have trouble remebering these forms today. My point is I don't think it is about how fast we can learn them. As much as actually remembering them long term.

I miss the way we would learn one move a class at yan mings. I'll never forget those forms. lol Even if they were wushu!

[doc]

Thanks for the response.

I know wubu and leihan chuan seem pretty boring. I just look at them as a great exercise. If you could do those focused with good intent they are great training tools. Also if someone can't do these forms well why bother with anything else?

I found when I learned forms at yanmings and hengxins we learned them slowly and I never forgot them. Then when I went to lipengs we learned them quickly, like one a week. I have trouble remebering these forms today. My point is I don't think it is about how fast we can learn them. As much as actually remembering them long term.

I miss the way we would learn one move a class at yan mings. I'll never forget those forms. lol Even if they were wushu!

Think about what you just said. I see more than what you "wrote".

Lipeng, who ironically, and admirably, does not use "Shi" in his name, has a long established, and undeniable history at Shaolin Temple. Not only did he spend a lot of time in the temple proper, his father, who is a long term Shaolin resident, taught him a lot. Li Peng knows a lot of Shaolin gong fu, especially real, traditional, Shaolin.

It's no wonder that he has a lot to teach.

Now, how long did you train with Yanming? And how much did you learn?

There's more in your message than what is written.

[doc]

Interesting pricing structure at this Siping school. I looked at it when I was trying to figure out what schools in China were charging, so that I could better evaluate what to do here in Thailand.

Typical games. They charge a $50 application fee, and a $350 "administrative"fee, both nonrefundable. However, their monthly fees are about $800 or $900; if you stay for a year, they say they charge about $4500. But stay for one month, and the monthly charge is now around $1300 to $1400. Because of the fees.

Think about it. Shit living conditions, far from Shaolin, or anything else significant or worthwhile in China. With typical non monk wushu coaches, a school like any of the other thousands in China. But, they have a popular website.

A yearly price of $4500. In a place where few, if any, but the real diehards with no money, would stay. I would wager that most students would only go for a month, if that. That's where the nonrefundable "administrative" and application fee come in....

Interesting and simplistic devious pricing structure. No doubt it works for them.

[GabrielSF]

The northern shaolin academy in jilin province

I am planning on going to train in shaolin gungfu in china for 5-10years starting next january and i was looking at this school as a definate option....however after contacting numerous previous students of the academy i wouldnt go near it!the living ocnditions are aparently AWFUL and the training is sub-standard.Dont waste your money!
If you're looking for real shaolin training i suggest you look at the numerous schools in Dengfeng or Zhengzhou(where im planning to go).
I'v also heard that there is good training to be found in hong kong(i know an ex-student and teacher of pak mei gungfu in hong kong) and in taiwan.
good luck

Gabriel

[Maestro]

id rather train/live in hong kong then in honan shaolin temple. not only is the gung fu better but so are the whores, and the food.

[Firbolg]

train in shaolin gungfu in china for 5-10years

Did you mean months? 5 - 10 years seems just a tad excessive for anyone..

[syx]

www.shaolinwugulun.org

[quote=Elrond]Let me prefix my reply by a few coments about myself.

I've studied various martial arts for 10 years or so. At least 5 or 6 seriously. I'm 25 years old. I've traveled extensivly and completely independently (I'm currently living in Moscow for a 6 month period.) I have read all the archived information about schools in Shaolin and outside and have found it largely very helpfull.

I am planning a two month trip to china to study martial arts starting the first week of July. I was planning on the Northern Shao lin martial arts academy. I've heard some good things from people who have been there, and some bad things from others. I am not monetarily commited there so I still could choose an alternate location. The reasons I choose this place is for several reasons
-the environment seems well suited there for training in July and August, (should I decide to stay into the winter, well I just made it through russian winter and didn't think minus 30 degrees C was that bad).
-The instructors there "seem" very qualified to teach Shaolin Gong Fu. Being Shaolin temple trained, as well as the body guard of Mao
-The cost is very reasonable(less than 2 thousand dollars for 2 months)
-Good recommendations of people who have trained there, however not from very advanced martial artists.

Basically the cost of the wushu guan and or the school where your(Doc) master resides seem cost prohibitive at 80 dollars a day. This price seems out of line with what things should cost in China. (that works out to be 4800 dollars for 2 months).

Anyway I suppose I am just asking for advice based on the situation I have given above.

Thanks


there was something i did read on this website, its very interesting to other site i read. check out www.shaolinwugulun.org