Wong Kiew Kit

[juszczec]

Hi folks

Just a comment about organization building and promotions.

Its not new.

Kano, the founder of judo, and many of the folks involved with karate in Japan in the 1940s did the same thing.

Right or wrong? I don't know. But its probably more widespread and has been going on longer than we want to admit.

Mark

[jordanf]

1 Year, 3 Years, 30 Years... I think skill, ability and responsibility etc are the more important issue(s) here, not the time spent.

Sifu (Sifu Hartwright) teaches us very competently. Sifu is passing on exactly what us students need to know, at every step of the way, with much care and attention. Sifu only teaches us what he already knows well and can demonstrate with ease - he does not need to “bs”…

I speak for myself of course, but I am sure Sifu’s other students would agree.

Regards,

Jordan.

[Maestro]

who cares

who cares who calls dan sifu

hes called "master dan hartwright" all the time on the website

master dan hartwright..

master ronan sexton

master of what? bs?

[arhat]

sometimes I'm an idiot...

and right now bohdi is like, "sometimes?"

I SHOULD have copied it...but I forgot. AGAIN.

Rest assured that will be the last lost post.

Shi and Fuo make up Sifu or Shifu...I have the character here somewhere...

Shaolin masters are called shifu, as opposed to other buddhist teachers at other temples being called fashi...because of the whole confucian gong fu/ch'an buddhism blend extent in the various transmission ceremonies. In regular gong fu circles, which was usually transmitted father to son, you become a part of the master's family when you become a disciple- Shaolin adds an interesting little twist because of the buddhism thing- so when you become a shaolin disciple you swear vows not just to your master (shifu) but also to Shaolin, Shijiamuni, Pu Ti Da Mo, Guan Yin, and take refuge basically...

Anyway, you don't find the term "shifu" used much in other buddhist temples...that I've noticed anyway.

[prajna]

PS: Shifu does not just mean master. You can use it in China for other people, such as taxi cab drivers

I thought that it translated to something near father/teacher.

Jon

[doc]

Sorry to see you're still having trouble holding onto posts. Not sure what to tell you, other than "use notepad". I always do for the long ones. You can input all the formatting that you need into notepad, and just copy and paste when you're ready to upload. I haven't had any server bumps on this end, nor have I heard of any other people having problems, but I still use notepad to write my big stuff. This way I keep a copy of it for future reference too.

With the little sack,
doc

PS: Shifu does not just mean master. You can use it in China for other people, such as taxi cab drivers....

[prajna]

Thankyou arhat,

That was very interesting. When did the program air?

Also, what is Shi Yan Ming's specialised skill/s?

I take your point about Yan Xin. I will do more research.

I do not really agree with the title Sifu being given after such a short time, but the instructors are very capable of teaching us. Incidently, what would an official title be for "instructor" as opposed to Sifu.

As I said before though, I do not want to get into a Wahnam v RUSSBO war of words. I quite like this place. Hopefully I can contribute to the community here.

Jon

[arhat]

Round Two...

Lost the last post. This one will be shorter.

The last test was conducted by Dr. Richard Chapman from the University of Utah Pain Research center. They subjected Shi Yan Ming to an experiment designed to create certain physiological responses to what the Dr. ominously termed "noxious stimulus."

The control lasted about a minute and a half. The experiment consisted of using some kind of surgical wrap to drain the blood out of the subject's arm, then applying a tourniquet, then submerging the hand into a bowl of icy water. The show was called Beyond Human Endurance, and aired on the Discovery Channel, and the BBC.

Shi Yan Ming's motto is if you say you can do something, then put up or shut up. It should make no difference under which circumstances, just do it. This is at odds with pretty much every other traditional master I know who have a host of cop outs they employ as they see fit. Most of whom have no problem cashing your checks though, but they have a problem subjecting their claims to scientific scrutiny. In the words of WKK, he was not "ready" for such tests of his abilities- but he is more than ready to rake in the denaro, and not only that, but appoint 3 yr students to the position of "Master." That's what the word Sifu means. Master. Sifu Dan. BIG sack on that one...

So anyway, when they called him up he put up when they asked him if they could subject him to some tests. Asking him about pain, he claimed he normally does not feel pain. So they tested it in a controlled study. At the end, his blood pressure was lower than when they started, and eventually they ceased the experiment because there was no change in his readings over the course of about 12-15 minutes.

I would be very wary of using Dr. Yan Xin as support for any kind of science proving qigong. You should really really look into that. Professor Qian Xuesen, China's foremost rocket scientist, came out in support of a "Doctor" whose TCM license was revoked 2 years after they got it, for "quackery." Also, why should anyone look to a rocket scientist for commentary on qi gong. This is called Arguing From Authority, or in this case, arguing from something outside of your scientific training which you conceivably know little about. It pretty much makes Professor Qian Xuesen's comments worthless, scientifically. Also, the study which generated these comments had nothing to do with supporting any of the claims made by qigong "Grandmasters" but was a study about some incredible fasting.

The other post was a lot longer and more detailed. Also, more damning so maybe it is better it evaporated.

I am glad to hear you are having success with your training. Just don't take what's told you at face value. Research. Dig.

[prajna]

arhat,

Could you tell me anything about research conducted on Shi Yan Ming?

Jon

[arhat]

SHIFU Dan...

boy has some sack I'll grant him that...

[prajna]

I do remember you Jim (black suit, white cuffs). That's right I trained under Sifu Pasco David until he moved to Japan.

I have read some of the old threads (I would rather not comment on them), and will try not get into debates like that, but I do feel the need to comment indirectly in this particular thread, when such a strong statement has been made.

I look forward to your unbiased report. All I would like to say on this is, I hope you will take into account people's different needs. The Shaolin arts are huge and focus on different aspects/goals.

Look forward to training with you again.

Jon

[wooden dummy]

Hi Jon, it's me, Jim from the London class. I'm pretty sure I remember you- you did VT with Sifu Pasco, right? I remember talking to you about it in class. You asked about the Wild Goose Qigong at the Tse qigong centre.

I'd be careful about being overly protective of Wahnam around here- if you've read the old threads you know what I mean. All I'm saying is, certain people (here and at Wahnam) have certain opinions that don't seem conducive to a nice calm debate, lol. Still as long as everybody keeps an open mind and is as tolerant as possible, everything's cool.

I'm in the process of writing a report on comparing the training at Wahnam and the Shaolin Temple in Tufnell park, which is run by actual monks (though the Wahnam guys would probably try to convince you that they weren't real monks) from Henan, China. This report is going to be for the benefit of people who are in the situation I was in a few months ago, trying to find the best place to learn Shaolin in London but not having enough information to decide which was best. I may also add in some other Shaolin / Hung Gar schools that I've found since then. Who knows, maybe eventually it'll even stretch into a whole London Kung Fu Directory, lol.

Anyway hope your practicing's going well, probably see ya when Dan gets back from Malaysia.

[prajna]

especially things like the various forms of arthritis. But, I'm very weary of hearing different aspects of traditional Chinese medicine "curing" other disease states, things that just have no basis in fact for having efficacy.

I do have various forms of arthritis (psoriatic arthrisis, ankylosing spondylitis), and I agree that you must be weary of so-called "miricle cures". It's easy to buy into these things, and hard to be objective.

I think that the best way to approach this is to practice with a positive attitude, and not to expect anything. I still need to use anti-inflamitory drugs but not always full dose now. I do think the mind plays a part in these thing. I also believe that complete trust needs to be given to the master teaching the techniques. Doubt just throws up questions in the mind, making the experience less effective.

This is where I'll probably get flamed . I think proof can be the number of people who have been helped/cured with any "high level" qigong. This at least deserves research. I know the qigong master Dr Yan Xin is currently being used in research at Harvard, and has been tested extensivly by the Chinese High Energy Physics University. I don't know what the Harvard research is though or the details of the testing conditions.

On a side note: I would be very interested in the research carried out on Shi Yan Ming. Can anybody tell me anything about it (eg what was being tested, how was he tested etc).

Jon

[doc]

Qi gong practice is highly beneficial if you've got certain types of physical ailments, especially things like the various forms of arthritis. But, I'm very weary of hearing different aspects of traditional Chinese medicine "curing" other disease states, things that just have no basis in fact for having efficacy.

I'm glad that you're finding it helpful. It does have it's place you know.

[prajna]

guess we need to go and experience some chi flow so we can see that what dan, anthony, and ronan etc said wasnt insulting..disrespectful..and generally uncharacteristic of everything they claim to be..

I don't want to get into a conversation about this. I'm just representing myself and my practice. Anthony etc can defend their actions here if they want to.

Jon