What stories did your Master have told you about the training at Shaolin years ago?

[Inevitable]

yeah yeah now thats what i'm talking about

[master splinter]

[quote=zachsan]

"So right now, my interest in the martial arts is strictly academic, and this site is great for such an interest."



well, you wont get very far with only knowledge. you have to put it to use some day. Without practice, all the knowledge you have obtained will be useless, unless of course you are aiming to become a human database.

they say knowledge is not equal to practice.

[zachsan]

unless of course you are aiming to become a human database.

To a much lesser degree than you suggest, that's precisely what I'm aiming for, when it comes to martial arts.

I'm not really sure what you mean. Again, like most people out there, I don't feel like I need to be a master of gongfu or karate in order to defend myself, if that's what you're getting at. If you're saying it's pointless to know about the history of MA if you're not a practitioner, I disagree. It's good to be interested in things outside the scope of your daily life.

Of course, there's the common sentiment among keyboard warriors that if you don't practice, you don't know shit, when it comes to self defense, MA, Qi energy, etc.... But I think you're smart enough not to fall into that mental ditch.

[master splinter]

. Again, like most people out there, I don't feel like I need to be a master of gongfu or karate in order to defend myself, if that's what you're getting at. .

Actually, that is not what im getting at. I personally practice martial arts to reap the health benefits, i dont like to fight outside of my training or competition and will avoid doing so at all costs.

the benefits of martial arts can only be reaped through training and competition(if not one then the other), these benefits are, a quick thinking logical mind encompassing all possiblities and all solutions, a unified mind and body leading to a better understanding of your self and your own biological needs, and eventually others. obvious health benefits from cardiovascular, muscular, and skeletal exercise, not to mention the increased energy, and prolonging of life and supressing the aging process, enhanced immune system, etc.

honestly, i practice martial arts to better my chances of survival, in all aspects, know what i mean? its a skill so to speak, and imo, one that is worth the sweat. And unless you are aiming to become a martial arts historian, its rather useless to hoarde knowledge and never use it.

[zachsan]

Obviously, knowing about martial arts is not going to make me physically healthier.

As far as "a quick thinking logical mind encompassing all possiblities and all solutions" that "can only be reaped through [martial arts] training and competition"... I must say that in my experience, frankly, I've seen no correlation whatsoever between martial arts practice and logical thinking. I could give you plenty of examples of dedicated (sometimes fanatically dedicated) martial artists who have basically lost their minds, some from this forum. Hell, Steven Seagal is convinced that he's the 3rd reincarnation of Musashi Miyamoto, or something like that. Wong Kiew Kit believes he can disperse clouds with his Qi energy. And those are the tame ones.

its rather useless to hoarde knowledge and never use it

It can actually be one of the most rewarding ways to spend your spare time. Isn't there anything that interests you that has no real effect on your life? Something fictional, even; comic books, movies, whatever. In my opinion, real life is just more interesting, but you see what I'm getting at. Simple curiosity is a natural result of human intelligence and should be embraced.

[Maestro]

well, i agree somewhat, i dont practice buddhism but ive read hordes about it. the same goes for taoism and confucianism and eastern philosophy ingeneral, although i wouldnt say i dont use it, i dont actively practice it. im very interested in history(particularly ancient history) and religion. i also like sports, not a huge fan of movies..i like em but not like most people, i love hip hop and r&b, umm...besides that and other misc things like reading and eating food and girls, really i am obssesed with martial arts

and, the simple fact of the matter is, if u dont practice what u preach in martial arts, you really dont know shit. sorry to contradict you but, its true. u may understand some things on an intellectual level, but the corresponding effects of intuitively and physically understanding something is far different then presumeing to know what your talking about. espcially if someone asked u a question like how to, or whats the best way to, or etc etc

i could say, zachsan, whats the best way to develope kiu energy with the 12 bridges of hung style, u may know the 12 bridge hands, but do u know how to effectively train each energy and how to apply them? do u know how to direct qi to your limbs or can you just say, in so and so you direct the qi here or there.

this is what im getting at

[zachsan]

Well, to start, the specifics of "how to, or whats the best way to, or etc etc" are not what interest me about martial arts, so I don't know much about them, and I don't claim to. For instance, if you asked me to give you a common Shaolin defense to a step-through punch, I couldn't. If you asked me to talk about the history of Shaolin martial arts, I could probably give you more details than most practicing martial artists. Keep in mind, though, it's only a casual interest, and I probably don't know any more about this than most of you on this board.

When you bring up the question of Qi and the specifics of how to direct it to different parts of your body, that's a whole different can of worms, because (and I'm sure you already know this, Maestro) I don't even swallow the existence of Qi as it's commonly defined. This, of course, is where I usually run into the "well you don't know shit because you don't practice!" defense, but this isn't a rational defense at all, for reasons that, frankly, most hardcore Qigong proponents fail to grasp. Those reasons and an absurd number of posts demostrating said failure to grasp them are easy enough to find on this forum, and I'm not going to get into it again. Not today, at least.

The simple truth is that you can know a great deal about anything - World War II, airplanes, the stock market, politics - without needing to participate in it, and the area of martial arts is no exception. Surely a WW2 vet will know details about his experience that a professional WW2 expert doesn't. But there's a good chance the expert will know a good deal more about the war in general than the vet. The attitude of many martial artists on the net is akin to a politican dismissing his critics because they're not politicians themselves. The fallacy is, in fact, exactly the same.

[Inevitable]

there we go, it doesn't matter if your the best at one specifice style, the one who knows generally more, and has practised in different arts will have a greater advantage because he/she can see new ways to attack, and defend

[master splinter]

[quote=zachsan]Obviously, knowing about martial arts is not going to make me physically healthier.

"As far as "a quick thinking logical mind encompassing all possiblities and all solutions" that "can only be reaped through [martial arts] training and competition"... I must say that in my experience, frankly, I've seen no correlation whatsoever between martial arts practice and logical thinking."

i see your point zachsan, but think about it. a fight is very similar to a puzzle, or a game of chess, i.e. having a tactical strategy, cause and effect, and the anticipation of action/reaction i.e. your jab to his face will make him____, or a counter to this throw would be_____, it is a scientific process of elimination, what tech works against what, what works for you. It is also an experession and study of mechanical advantage.

additionally, your mind does not have time to think as in a game of chess, the process of "touch, go, kiss," happens within a split second, and within that split second are numerous logical deductions that have to be made in order to maintain an effective strategy. How is martial arts not an exercise for the mind as well? imo, the use of the body and the formation of neural pathways in the brain have a distinct connection, imo, exercising the body can be just as beneficial for the mind, take physiotherapy, and psychophysiology, of course martial arts may not improve your reaing and math scores, but it will enhance your life by removing stress etc. therefore acting as a sort of lubrication to rhose gears in your head, providing a more stable and stressless mind, more capable, and set for maximum performance.

dont get me wrong, i see what you are saying, im hust saying that you may enjoy your studies more if you became an avid practitioner as well, just as baseball players love to watch baseball, imo there are many exciting things to discover through practice. I didnt really believe in chi either, until i experienced it, its overrated. And dont be repelled by the mystical mockable stuff you hear and read, you're a scientific person zachsan, so why not experiment a little,And You are a(n) (ex) martial artist after all, why leave things unfinished?

[LeiYunFat]

You two [zach and maestro] are talking about two different things. For Maestro, it's how to fight. That's how he defines martial arts. For Zach, you are referring to facts, history, and martial arts as a subject.

It's like talking about football where one guy is like, "The Detroit Lions are set to win the championship, because they are so great. All the stats point to that big, silver Lombardi. (rattles off all these facts)"

The second guy says, "you don't know shit about football till you've been on the gridiron with a 345 linebacker about to crush your spine through your asshole."

[Inevitable]

sounds alot better!

[master splinter]

Zachsan, you're just lazy.

[zachsan]

LOL... and so is everyone else that doesn't practice gongfu, right? Respectfully, get a full time job, pay rent and bills, and get a girlfriend, and then you can tell me that not wanting to spend $90 plus and 32 hours a month on a hobby is lazy.

[tetsumaru]

I have a full time job, a girlfriend, pay mortgage and bills and I still pay to go to MA class which btw is 30min drive each way. I still practice everyday even if its just walking through a form. I'm not saying anything about your character I'm just saying it can be a little stressful at times to fit everything in one day but it is possible if you schedule your time and discipline yourself. Lay your ego to rest.

[zachsan]

I never said it was impossible. I just said it wasn't important to me. What that has to do with being lazy, I have no idea. The time and money I don't spend on MA, I spend on music, my social life and my "pointless" curiosities. I understand you're not saying anything about my character, but Mr. Splinter certainly was, and I responded, rather than ignore him, out of respect.