911 is a joke

[Iron Cross]

He felt the earth move under his feet. He felt the sky a tumbling down... tumbling down... tumbling down..

[master splinter]

gotta love nerd rock. this one is for you onesping.



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSmK0OF7o0k"]YouTube - Sunz of Alien Technology 'DOMINO FALLS"[/ame]

[zachsan]

Seriously though, I wasn't just trying to turn it into a joke, I want to know why the incinerated support beams, explosions, etc., support a Bush conspiracy versus an alien attack.

[Iron Cross]

I agree with you. But this whole idea is kinda a joke too.

Bill Maher said it best numerous time on his show. The main reason 911 was not a bush conspiracy is because "it worked"

[onesp1ng]

i don't have the burden of proof. this was fema and nist's duty and their "conclusions" have been refuted. the theory of controlled demolitions can be tested and proved to be fact or just a theory. the theories your currently working from, however, have not been proved and defy science (which is the very science you often use to back up your positions). it can't be too difficult, for instance, to take steel samples and test them for pyrotechnic substances. fema and nist never performed such tests.

you guys seem to be working off the assumption that it can't be proved....

look, i've never pointed directly to bush himself. you guys have jumped to yet another conclusion and are attempting to change the subject and turn this into a game of "what ifs."

all i know is that a steel structured building has never come down before due to fire (let alone 3 in the same day), fire can't produce molten steel lava, gravity can't shoot huge steel support beams into other buildings, steal beams are shown to be cut at angles (a characteristic of controlled demolition), everything disintegrated into dust, there were no pancakes, human remains were found atop other buildings, and a lot of first-hand experience supports controlled demolition. how do you explain that? have you ever really examined the evidence for controlled demolition yourself yet?

as for your aliens and psychics questions, i'm afraid they wont work because (unlike controlled demolitions) they just aren't real. lol....

[ame="http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=IwQa5eokieY"]YouTube - 9/11 Commission Report bars 503 1st responder eyewitnesses[/ame]

267 stories of building "collapsed" into nothing in about 30 seconds due to fire and gravity. i only wish i could be that gullible.

[Iron Cross]

Now you are saying FEMA was behind this?? FEMA??? Hecka uva job Brownie FEMA???? Let me guess what you will say next. The massive conspiracy created hurricane katrina too with their all powerful weather controlling technology and then used that as an excuse to make fema look incompetent so people would assume they are too stupid to plan 911. How close am I? in fact thats my new theory you must now prove me wrong.

[doc]

A steel structured building has never before been hit by a fully fuel laden jetliner.

And having seen a few controlled detonations in buildings in Las Vegas, personally, I can assure you that in my opinion, the WTC didn't come down like any of the large hotels I've witnessed.

And they spent literally, weeks, preparing those buildings for detonation.

[zachsan]

Actually onesp1ng, you're right, you never actually said there was a Bush conspiracy. I guess I just assumed that's what you were getting at because that's what everyone else who talks this way is getting at.

So if you're not asserting a conspiracy, the question becomes, what exactly is your point?

[master splinter]

this thread is hilarious!

[master splinter]

if 911 is a joke, then it must be, one helluva inside joke...

[onesp1ng]

for those who said they'd be interested in NIST's findings concerning tower 7, it's now out. it came out a couple months ago, evidently with very little media coverage.

you all know my opinion. i'm astonished, but, even more so, i'm really deeply saddened. how is this the best we can do for people? how, when 3 whole buildings collapse, after 3 more years of research, with all the inconsistences and recorded testimony, does no one test for pyrotechnic residues?

"for the first time in history," they say; it's conclusive.

According to a federal agency report released Thursday, a "new phenomenon" known as thermal expansion was directly responsible for the mysterious collapse of World Trade Center 7 on Sept. 11, 2001.

This study, posed by the National Institute of Standards and Technology -- a federal scientific agency which promotes technical industrial standards -- marks the first 'official' government theory on the collapse.

The building's demise occurred some seven hours after the twin towers collapsed on Sept. 11, 2001, and has been the source of numerous conspiracy theories key to the "9/11 Truth" movement, most of which argue that the symmetrical, seven-second collapse was brought about by a controlled demolition.

Dr. Shyam Sunder, director of Institute's building and fire research laboratory, oversaw the government's three-year research efforts. The report aims to disprove the controlled demolition argument.

However, Richard Gage, founder of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth and a member of the American Institute of Architects, doesn't believe a word of the theory.

His group, which has swelled to over 400 architectural and engineering professionals, immediately responded to the Institute's claim in a press conference.

"Tons of [molten metal] was found 21 days after the attack," said Gage in an interview with a Vancouver, Canada television station. "Steel doesn't begin to melt until 2,700 degrees, which is much hotter than what these fires could have caused."

"There are holes in this story that you can drive a truck through," Gage added during the press conference. His group asserts that thermite, a steel cutting agent, was used to bring the building down.

Dr. Sunder disagreed.

"We conducted the study without bias, without interference from anyone," said Dr. Sunder. "We have only one single-minded goal in this effort."

While the Institute said it considered the possibility of a controlled demolition taking place at WTC 7, the notion was dismissed due to the absence of any recordings of an explosion sound.

Thermite, however, does not make an explosion sound. And while this was raised to Dr. Sunder in the media's Q&A session, he dismissed it as impossible.

"FEMA found it," said Gage. "Dr. Steven Jones found it, in the dust that landed in the entire area of lower Manhattan. And he finds it in the chunks of previously molten metal [from the towers]."

Specifically, in Appendix C of its World Trade Center Building Performance Study, FEMA claimed: Evidence of a severe high temperature corrosion attack on the steel, including oxidation and sulfidation with subsequent intergranular melting, was readily visible in the near-surface microstructure. A liquid eutectic mixture containing primarily iron, oxygen, and sulfur formed during this hot corrosion attack on the steel... The severe corrosion and subsequent erosion of Samples 1 and 2 are a very unusual event. No clear explanation for the source of the sulfur has been identified. Yet, no study of the mysterious sulfur or melted steel was included in the NIST report.

After New York City officials cut off the water main to the tower Sept. 11, 2001, the building's sprinkler system was unable to function, Dr. Sunder said. This allowed fires across 10 floors to burn uncontrolled for nearly seven hours.

The Institute asserts that due to the lack of water supply, an “extraordinary event” occurred, and for the first time ever, steel expanding due to heat from the flames caused columns to separate from structural concrete. Column 79 was the first to fail, according to the report, which brought about a quick succession of failures in adjoining columns.

"Thermal expansion of long-span floor systems" was a critical element in the collapse, said Dr. Sunder. The "kink" seen in the building's penthouse portion in video of the collapse was in-line with the columns which failed first.

"If water had been available, it is likely that sprinklers would have operated and the building may still be here today," he said.

"It looks like they want to wrap-up this investigation and blame [the collapse]on normal office fires," said Gage during counter-conference.

WTC 7's structural system is in "widespread use" in other buildings, he added, insisting that such effects may also be present elsewhere. The Institute's report also includes recommendations for the strengthening of building codes to avoid future thermal expansion-driven collapses.

The collapse of WTC 7 is "no longer a mystery," Dr. Sunder claimed.

The Institute's full report is available at wtc.nist.gov.

an absolute shame....

[onesp1ng]

[ame="http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=ijJCb7efyU0"]YouTube - WTC 7 - Was It a Managed Controlled Demolition?[/ame]

[zachsan]

It's a shame I need to point out the obvious here, but 747s were also flown into giant buildings for the first time in history.

[doc]

The fire dept demolished it. (How absurd: EDIT)

Having two extremely large buildings next door collapse, with tons and tons of material shaking the earth and the surrounding buildings, had nothing to do with it?

Why do people believe that there was a conspiracy? Why even go there?

[onesp1ng]

The fire dept demolished it.

whao!! doc, seems like you have a conspiracy theory on your hands. to say the fire department did it, that's a pretty big claim. obviously, it's not even close to the government's offical claim that a "new phenomen" called "thermal expansion" was at fault.

so you know that tower 7 was "demolished" by the fire departement now. has to make you wonder why the rest of new york and america aren't provided with the same information? i'm sure there's people out there who'd like to ask them why they did that exactly..

Having two extremely large buildings next door collapse, with tons and tons of material shaking the earth and the surrounding buildings, had nothing to do with it?

they didn't bring down any other buildings that were in fact closer in proximity to the towers, like 6 and 7. 6 and 7 were damaged and burned, but they never collapsed, nor was the "fire department" responsible, as you say, for demolishing them.