Scientology

[dogchow108]

haha, BL, what a crock. measures Qi, but just happens to register as heat. nice. About this thing with the machinery that measures Qi by the way, until this can be described at a practical level other than "oh they use some nifty gadget" and the results reproduced, its gonna stay in the same category as Nuclear Fusion. And Scientology.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

Fair enough Zachsan.. later then I guess......

but you Dogchow...... you call "crock" an then go onto say that you don't even know what it is you're thinking is crock......

Heat "is" energy....... it does register with a frequency on various tools for scientific measurement and studies on certain monks performing qigong ( likely including Shi Xing Hao , imheo ( humbley educated opinion) one of 'the cream' of current day internal skill knowledge and skill crop in the world ... ) who has done a few things with NASA who contributed to the nano-technology R&D data and funding) have concluded that the trail of the qi is conducive and tracable to the the explaination of the qi throughout the "exercise ", the direction it flows in and the strength with which it's done.

Chrissakes ... suure you don't want to read some stuff?? .......

google nanotechnology and quorum global R&D and qi and see where that takes you.....

cheers

[doc]

studies on certain monks performing qigong ( likely including Shi Xing Hao , imheo ( humbley educated opinion) one of 'the cream' of current day internal skill knowledge and skill crop in the world ... ) who has done a few things with NASA who contributed to the nano-technology R&D data and funding) have concluded that the trail of the qi is conducive and tracable to the the explaination of the qi throughout the "exercise ", the direction it flows in and the strength with which it's done.

Chrissakes ...

Good Lord.

And with that, I feel compelled to send her back to HELL without the usual "donations".

[zachsan]

Heat "is" energy....... it does register with a frequency on various tools for scientific measurement...

LOL, like, a thermometer?

i don't blame you at all doc. i still don't think it will do any good, though. HELL or elsewhere, we're stuck with her.

by the way, for those of you who are interested, Quorum Global NanoProducts is yet another pseudoscientific scam designed to separate poor gullible folks such as BL from their cash. clink on the link for more.

[plumflower_pm]

I'm gonna regret getting involved....

Shi Xing Hao's association with NASA was that he visited and performed there for a documentary called Shaolin Ulysses.

The only relationship I found between Qi and nanotechnology is that a Ms. Yuen Qi won an award for a paper (interesting stuff,) on computational nanotechnology, that NASA sponsored.

as you said, try googling it.

[doc]

My understanding and training in Scientology is NOT based on belief but on actual scientific proof that (a) man is more than just a blob of blood and stardust (b) you are a spiritual being and have lived before and (c) your aberrations are exacerbated by this reactive mind, where when it is relieved, the person becomes much more able to decide and to choose as he wishes and wants rather than being dictated by the subconscious.

A truly enlightening experience. I've just discovered the the twelve plus hard years of schooling in medicine that I spent in my career, were a complete waste of time.

Now how did I miss this Scientology stuff? Must have missed that five minutes of class.

We are the only ones who have the tech to address and handle this situation. We have can bring order, we can organize and we can and do bring sanity in times of confusion.

Again, I am truly enlightened. As I look back on my long and relatively undistinguised career, as an EMT, Paramedic, teacher, physician, and assistant professor of medicine and surgery, and, as I think about all the policemen, firemen, nurses, nurses assistants, technicians, medical colleagues, psychologists, psychiatrists and other medical and emergency medical professionals that I have befriended and worked closely with, I now know that all of us, who have dealt with human tragedy on both a small and a large scale, on a daily basis over the many, many years, are really irrelevant when it comes to handling situations such as this.

Donations are also URGENTLY needed as we are providing food, water, medical supplies, toiletries and other essentials to literally thousands of homeless people.

I find it fascinating, and, completely UNSURPRISING, that, within your entire diatribe above, you rarely use CAPITAL letters for EMPHASIS.

Except, that is, when you ask for money.

To me, I see that as a concept which has been drummed into your head repeatedly, most probably from the superiors that manage the business of your "religion". But, I won't go so far as to say that this is evidence of brainwashing.

Just evidence of "emphatic repetition". But, it's only my opinion.

[Limni]

The emphasis and capitals were not mine, but from another author, just to set the record straight. I'm sure if the American Red Cross said the same thing you would not have a problem with it. The medical profession obviously is necessary to help man and I have no quarrel with it. I'm sure you've seen your share of misery. But as I understand it, alternative medicine, even chiropractic, is not taught in medical schools. The point of my posting was to show you that this is an active religion, which reaches out to help those in need. It's a counterpoint to your McPherson comments. Other groups also have said not to send food and clothing but to send money. To point out how fallacious Scn is is to miss the point of what we had before Dn and Scn and what we have now. So then you don't buy my first paragraph about the Scn beliefs then, can I say that as true? Psychology as a "science" is the real waste of time. If you want me to blast that BS crap out of the water, I can. Or you can see www.cchr.org as well. Later, LM

[zachsan]

To point out how fallacious Scn is is to miss the point of what we had before Dn and Scn and what we have now.

no, it's not. it's to underscore the fact that "what we have now" is, in your own words, fallacious.

Psychology as a "science" is the real waste of time.

psychology is a new science, and for that reason, it's easy to attack some of the conclusions a lot of psychologists have come to. those unfamiliar with the scientific method will see this as a reason to disregard the entire field. those actually interested in answers will see this as even more reason to devote more time to studying the human mind scientifically.

those interested in making a quick buck will take advantage of the former group by first attacking psychology, and then proposing metaphysical and pseudoscientific alternatives, bypassing the need for peer-reviewed studies, and taking their scam straight to the gullible masses. those unfortunate enough to buy into the alternative will also propogate it to justify their new beliefs (not to mention their newly-lost cash). this is what you're doing, and this is what whoever fooled you was doing, and all of the Operating Thetans and Sea Org members before them, straight up to Hubbard.

i'm sure it has helped some people. but there are ways to help people without lying to them or to yourself. the fact that scientology is a lie makes a world of difference.

[Limni]

I Knew Zach was a Psych

Seems I did not word my words correctly on the last post. Let me try again to rephrase something. Scientology is not fallacious. It has a proven, workable technique that has been proven to be effective in handling lives for the better. I posted successes and announcements to show that others have this same feeling.

When I said psychiatry was crap (in so many words) I meant it very well. Psychology evaluates and tells a person what's wrong with him, whether true or not. The APA votes on what mental illnesses are next, that will garner the most cash in drug prescriptions, and away we go. There is no such thing as acquired attention deficit disorder (or whatever the hell they call it).

Zach, let's put you on an ECT machine or shoot you full of Prozac and Ritalin. They do that with children now. Did you know parents could be arrested for child abuse if they don't allow their children to get these mind altering drugs if their teacher (underline) judges their kids to be a bit crackers? Wow, some applied science we have here, huh?

Dianetics can be done by anyone. All one has to do is follow the procedures in the book. You don't even have to tell any Church of Scn, or write in or anything. Just get the book, tap a friend on the shoulder and say you can do something about their bad back or speed the healing of that broken arm and run the procedure.

Sorry for running off at the mouth, just that backing up psychiatric medicine and calling it a science is laughable. Again, I refer to www.cchr.org, which you obviously didn't even look up, you whiny illiterate.

I also find it interesting to be accused of being blinded by belief, when you yourself are blinded by your own prejudice. You read the anti-Scn websites and declare them true, without looking at both sides of an issue. Hypocrite. At least Doc has helped people and has some intelligence, although I don't always agree with his premise, but that's fine.

Later, LM.

PS, it's great creating controversial debates here as long as you keep your GD facts straight.

[Limni]

Doc Doesn't Get It.

I find it fascinating, and, completely UNSURPRISING, that, within your entire diatribe above, you rarely use CAPITAL letters for EMPHASIS.

Except, that is, when you ask for money.

The money requested was for the homeless of New Orleans, you dimwit. Obviously.

I do not criticize your methods of helping others. It's very needed. However, to lash into some alternative therapy that has proven workable is a bit closed minded. Did our Buddhist friend get his question answered about the reactive mind? It was a much more enlightened question than your questionable posting.

LM

[doc]

Yes, no doubt, the money is supposed to be for the homeless of New Orleans.

But, who collects it? Where does it go to first?

And how much eventually gets to the homeless of New Orleans?

If you look at charitable organizations, and by no way am I suggesting that Scientology is a charitable organization, a percentage of what they collect goes towards administrative costs. Some organizations keep over 80% of the collections, just to keep themselves in business.

With such a money oriented organization (look at what your hero Mr Cruise spent to become "enlightened&quot, I personally wouldn't give them a dime.

DW

[doc]

Scientology is not fallacious. It has a proven, workable technique that has been proven to be effective in handling lives for the better. I posted successes and announcements to show that others have this same feeling.

Well, I guess that proves it then. The fact that others have the same feeling always proves it to me. I'm sure the McPherson family feels better now, knowing that she got a "proven, workable technique that has been proven to be effective in handling lives for the better."

When I said psychiatry was crap (in so many words) I meant it very well. Psychology evaluates and tells a person what's wrong with him, whether true or not. The APA votes on what mental illnesses are next, that will garner the most cash in drug prescriptions, and away we go.

Strong statement. Do you have anything to support that with?

PS, it's great creating controversial debates here as long as you keep your GD facts straight.

Yes, it is great, and I thoroughly enjoy it. Now, if you would care to make this educational for the rest of us, feel free to present to us some facts. Eventually, we'd like to see some from you.

[plumflower_pm]

I went to the website you mentioned and it's a compilation of what is wrong with psychiatric medicine, it's a compilation of horror stories put together. Psychiatry is an ever evolving science - all over the world new approaches are being considered and taken all the time. Extremist, exclusionary viewpoints keep scientific evolution and developments from happening. No one treatment method is right for everyone. You would do well to keep an open mind and recognize that. There may well be tenets within the SoC doctrine that are workable for the masses. I haven't seen anyone here refute that, but we are pointing out that the entire "scientology" package is a dangerous one that consumes it's participants and easily fits into the definition of a cult.

Lets talk for a moment about the CoS paranoia of 'non-believers'. Let's talk about "penalties for lower conditions" and the concept of "fair game", and how those types of exclusionary practices raise the hackles of those of us who will happily remain on the outside of cults like the CoS.

Penalties for lower conditions within the CoS refers to a doctrine introduced by Hubbard and outlined below. According to the CoS, the practice of following through with "fair game" practices was stopped shortly after it was introduced, in the late 60s.
_____________________

PENALTIES FOR LOWER CONDITIONS
(Applies both Orgs and Sea Org)

LIABILITY Suspension of pay and a dirty grey rag on left arm and day
and night confinement to org premises.

TREASON Suspension of pay and deprivation of all uniforms and insignia,
a black mark on left cheek and confinement on org premises or
dismissal from post and debarment from premises.

DOUBT Debarment from premises. Not to be employed. Payment of fine
amounting to any sum may have cost org. Not to be trained or
processed. Not to be communicated or argue with.

ENEMY SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by
any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the
Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.

_____________________

yea. it says "destroyed".


dig around, there are a few modern lawsuits that reference the CoS utilizing
the "fair game" policy. Gerry Armstrong, Wollersheim...


In 1998, in a western state, I had professional dealings with someone who whas
involved in CoS, and then had gotten himself into financial/legal trouble -
largely as a result of his Choice to participate in the chuch and abandon his
prior responsibilities. I had to look for this person, and when I went to talk to members of his group, they denied any knowledge of him even though I had documents proving that he had funnelled large amounts of time and money into their coffers. I eventually caught up with him and he told me he had gone to the church for help and they literally refused even to speak with him. He then told me they considered him "fair game". I didn't know the relevance of that term at time.

The CoS argument for this seems to be that other churches "excommunicate" members. My counterpoint to that is that even the most orthodox churches will take in a person of need and shelter them emotionally, regardless of thier standing within the church.
It's a paranoid, reactionary method to completely shun those who disagree with your viewpoint. It points out the fragility of the system, if it can't withstand even minor dissention or unexpected trouble from its members. Again, cult mentality, not church mentality.

The CoS edict toward criticism is "never defend, always attack".
I'm interested to see what you have to say about this.

[zachsan]

The CoS edict toward criticism is "never defend, always attack".
I'm interested to see what you have to say about this.

all of limni's posts on this forum are doing this exact thing. he still refuses to respond to the obvious fact that a belief in past lives is metaphysical in nature and not scientific, rather than simply to repeat his mistaken belief that scientology is based on proven science. then he wants to change the subject to psychiatry, as if that is somehow relevant.

he refuses to say anything about the mcpherson case except that he doesn't feel competent to comment on it. then he wants to change the subject to katrina relief, as if that is somehow relevant.

he will continue to do this as long as he can, because he's not interested in any conversation that will lead to a conclusion other than "and that's why I was right all along". i thought at first he could be reasoned with, but i'm losing hope, not to mention patience.

[plumflower_pm]

yea.. my post may be futile. *sigh*

On a lighter note, I just read that Hubbard has claimed that he was "almost hit by a freight train on Venus". That's impressive.