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  • #46
    Originally posted by blooming tianshi lotus View Post
    Are you accusing the whole of shaolin.cn to be liars btw? Yan Long says he's a chinese buddhist monk.
    in what way am i accusing anyone? yanlong is a chinese buddhist monk and thats why he is a vegetarian- besides personal choice.

    Originally posted by blooming tianshi lotus View Post
    yan long says up there that he had to eat frogs and all sorts of other stuff.
    btl, i've known yanlong for a number of years now. his early years as a monk in which he ate meat was of another tradition, not even in china as he said.

    he has lived in a few different monasteries in china. originally ordained in baimasi, then accepted under abbot yongxin in shaolinsi, and now follows the abbot of fengxuesi.

    as with any chinese monk or nun, full ordination entails a two-fold precept taking. firstly the pratimoksha precepts, and secondly the bodhisattva precepts.

    therefore, any fully ordained monk or nun in the chinese buddhist tradition MUST be vegetarian.

    since yanlong's chinese ordination he has been such.

    there are rules about saying bad things about monks yo know and about lying.
    i havent said anything bad about him, nor told lies about him. he is a friend and fellow brother.

    you cannot haaave buddhist cred and do shit like that. other wise, we have to show were youre innocent because you are an ignorant shithead.
    seems you're the ignorant one, now arent you?

    mahayana is big on vegetarianism. its a fact. chinese monks and nuns take the bodhisattva precepts in order to become fully ordained, which means they take a precept of vegetarianism and do not eat meat. its a fact.

    how long are you going to run around convincing yourself that vegetarianism isnt as important as it is in mahayana?

    if you are not vegetarian, thats your choice. but it is a central aspect to mahayana as the bodhisattva path cannot be followed without being vegetarian.

    its in the bodhisattva precepts.

    to quote brother yanlong "may you take the hint and be kind to animals".

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    • #47
      Originally posted by blooming tianshi lotus View Post
      aand I would eat the dirty meat if I saw cause also.
      aand I'd do it publically .
      it wasnt "dirty meat", but a bowl of dirt and rotten meat. and you have to eat it like it was a bowl of the most delicious food.

      and you're bs-ing just because you can say that without having to go through with it. lol
      Last edited by LFJ; 05-03-2008, 06:08 AM.

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      • #48
        Well, it is an interesting scholar debate but i think the fact that animals suffer or dont want to be eaten does not depend on a religion but on reality. To do something because a religion you do not understand says so is a way to create a new ego to replace your ignorance. Personnaly i try to acknowledge my ignorance but try to understand animals.
        It all depends on the animal not on any religion. Now in our modern life do we really love animals? I think animals are very absent and i noticed i nearly never dream about animals: it is all human stuff. So i go back to Wu Kong and try to love the animals. My head is empty of animal life and suffering so i try to fill it. In this sense i dont need a religion but philosophy.

        Now Doc you ask if you are a sinner. Well i think you have to find by yourself what is non violence. But just try to catch a fish or a chicken without using force...

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        • #49
          liutangsanzang,

          i agree. this is obvious.

          but sometimes people even use religion to justify why they are not vegetarian! it becomes increasingly difficult when the tradition they are claiming is huge on vegetarianism.

          but vegetarian or not, do we ever think about what the animals feel rather than what some great philosophers have said? and base our decision off of the animal's benefit and interest instead of our own selfishness and stubborn thinking?

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          • #50
            Originally posted by liutangsanzang View Post

            Now Doc you ask if you are a sinner. Well i think you have to find by yourself what is non violence. But just try to catch a fish or a chicken without using force...
            I'm a sinner.

            Don't doubt it. Ever.

            And I don't get anything in this world, fish, chicken, girlfriends, or otherwise, without using some sort of "force".

            "Force", is a commonly used thing in life.
            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

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            • #51
              Originally posted by LFJ View Post
              it wasnt "dirty meat", but a bowl of dirt and rotten meat. and you have to eat it like it was a bowl of the most delicious food.

              and you're bs-ing just because you can say that without having to go through with it. lol

              see. you cant just say I'm lying about stuff like that. how in the hell would you kow the lengths of primal nature I might call on to survive by enratio to priority?
              In china they haven't even had refrigeration or storage and transport standards until really recently, I can promise you that I've bought and eaten, rancid or partially rancid meat. I reeally dont recommend the rancid duck though, unless you must. but, they also sometimes dont have any water, and food dead set really can be that scarce. so.. if that's how it came, and that's what it was, I think it's a matter of national empathy to say it's okay. you can eat it you want and not hold a judgmental opinion about that. westerners eat sh*t off the floor. there've even been recent studies , clinical research stats advertised saying that if it's not on the ground for more than 5 seconds, it's okay to eat it.

              we said we'll take the spanking whereever we need to, without neccessarily pursuing a hard as* option just for the masochism of it, not that we do pleasure really, just quietly if it matters or you must know to understand the nature of the disposition, and you can have the ego about it everytime you do something horrible to test us out and we still meant it. the reason it doesn't hurt, is because like taking alms at all, is because there is no show. it's no b.s. so showing our survival skills, it's only about the boddhicitta way of mahayana, to give something to their spirit and only when we need to prioritially relative. we take what we need and no more and that's that. we eat sit , dont worry about that, and I for one refuse to have an ego enough to be offended that you ask or see. have my soul and my life to observe. no wonder ppl say they hate their breadwinning partners or their parents or the other side of that coin where they are that person. it's a whole other shit eating when youre paying or paid for.
              it's not glamourous in the typical way youu might be used to LFJ, like how you just pop in and out of Shi De Yang's living situation and then take a purple heart of bravery for it, which is okay, but, you know.. he lives that daily, he iis our current living grandmaster for doing it hard old school style, and we all old school hard stylers love the hell out of him and respect him of that , but,.. in flashy sturdy spiritedness and primal display ( where we tf need to *blush at that you want to see it* *blush* *blush* *blush*) and natural hormone display and in deficit of giddiness and in terms of abilty to survive .. it doesn't do too badly.



              what about maitreya? he isn't due ordained, and yet is the next imminent buddha.

              do you remember this at shaolinwolf

              [quote]
              Posted by Ba Bu (Member # 1848) on June 07, 2006 10:25 PMJune 07, 2006 10:25 PM:

              I've been looking around google. How many Buddhas are there? Is there a specific number? I found that there are 3 main types of Buddhas.

              I also found that the next Buddha is named Maitreya. This Buddha is supposed to be the first world ruler. Obviously I am this 'Maitreya' because I am definately fit to rule the world and show the people truth, tearing them away from their foolish starbucks.

              It said that the oceans have to shrink before I can take over the world and become Maitreya. So anyways. Does anyone know how many there are?

              Posted by LFJ (Member # 4009) on June 07, 2006 11:09 PMJune 07, 2006 11:09 PM:

              An infinite amount going into the past and into the future and even now in the present as all beings are Buddha.

              Maitreya is a Bodhisattva who resides in the Tusita Heaven realm awaiting his last life as a human being in which he'll become a fully enlightened Buddha in a time when the Buddhist path has been forgotten from the world. He will once again turn the wheel of Dharma.

              In Chinese he is known as MiLeFo or the 'Happy Buddha'. Called a Buddha because he will become the next. It is already an honorific title toward him. In fact, you could call all beings Buddha. They are basically enlightened yet are asleep to the fact Buddha is within.

              Hope that helps. _/ _

              Posted by Ba Bu (Member # 1848) on June 07, 2006 11:25 PMJune 07, 2006 11:25 PM:

              It does. What is the difference between a Boddisattva and a Buddha?
              By the way, you are very knowledgable LFJ, I assumed it would be you who answered my post first.

              Posted by LFJ (Member # 4009) on June 08, 2006 12:23 AMJune 08, 2006 12:23 AM:

              A Buddha is one who is fully self-awakened and teaches what wisdom they have found by their own practice.

              A Bodhisattva is one who is not yet fully enlightened but has a very high level of wisdom and insight into the nature of suffering. They vow not to attain enlightenment until all beings are brought to it. At which point they would go ahead and become a Buddha themselves.

              Buddhahood is the ultimate goal. Even for the Bodhisattvas who vow to save all sentient beings. But in a time where the Dharma is lost from the world the best way they can help bring innumerous beings to awakening is by attaining Buddhahood and turning the wheel of Dharma to make it known to the world once again.

              This is what Maitreya will do.
              [quote]

              the guardians of dharma at shaolin si are vajra diva, you know. do you understand vajrapani ( military gods) Of buddha and buddhism??

              check this out



              nevermind the warriors.

              amitabah.

              Blooming tianshi lotus.

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              • #52
                LFJ, to get to know what the animal feels is so important. In modern city life we just dont get it. And that s where the buddhist idea of emptiness can help. I believe these days that understanding suffering might be the most powerful mystical link. Also the imitation of animals in gongfu or yoga might help.

                Doc, i kind of see what you mean by our constant use of force. But maybe we can use force without violence like a monkey with a banana. And maybe we can not use force at all, like in the daoist ideal of wuwei 无为 where things move without you moving. Imagine a girlfriend that comes to you just because she loves you. I mean really loves you and you have nothing to do to taste that love. Imagine a fish comes to you without you moving. Imagine!

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                • #53
                  btl,

                  nice cop-out answer!

                  you type up a long post about nothing so you dont have to face the facts of the topic we've just been discussing- that you're wrong.

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                  • #54
                    no. I dont have the facts that prove that I'm wrong, LFJ, because they dont exist.
                    god bless Zachsan, btw. and god bless all the evil lawyers and cohorts .
                    way to make honest an citizen of the world. .
                    Blooming tianshi lotus.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by liutangsanzang View Post
                      LFJ, to get to know what the animal feels is so important. In modern city life we just dont get it. And that s where the buddhist idea of emptiness can help. I believe these days that understanding suffering might be the most powerful mystical link. Also the imitation of animals in gongfu or yoga might help.

                      Doc, i kind of see what you mean by our constant use of force. But maybe we can use force without violence like a monkey with a banana. And maybe we can not use force at all, like in the daoist ideal of wuwei 无为 where things move without you moving. Imagine a girlfriend that comes to you just because she loves you. I mean really loves you and you have nothing to do to taste that love. Imagine a fish comes to you without you moving. Imagine!

                      doing nothing is still LiQi though isn't it. that's a force on qi.

                      hunger is a force. another expression of liqi.

                      catfish?

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by blooming tianshi lotus View Post
                        no. I dont have the facts that prove that I'm wrong, LFJ, because they dont exist.
                        what about the whole "mahayana is not big on vegetarianism"? or the chinese monks you thought were not vegetarian after their chinese ordination which includes a precept of vegetarianism? and then saying i lie and slander them, when you're the one saying they break their precepts!

                        you're completely wrong on all accounts.

                        please find a fully ordained chinese monk or nun who is not vegetarian, or any respected mahayana monastic master that does not encourage vegetarianism, or where the buddha advised eating meat beyond certain medical situations within the mahayana scriptures.

                        what you're doing is using buddhism to justify why you are not vegetarian, but the tradition you claim is big on vegetarianism for both monastic and lay followers- as they can all take the bodhisattva precepts. it doesnt really work.

                        you are not vegetarian by your own choice, not by mahayana ideals.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          LFJ. That we are in a constant medical condition of imminent death iiis the sufferance of human kind.
                          Nothing living is exclusive to that condition, which clinically, yes, we can say is "medical".

                          Remembering now that dharma is still dharma whichever tradition it is expressed through, I dont believe that I have reason to believe that Yan Long was living outside of that when first indocrinated, to what you say, was a branch outside of china. I dont know that that's true at all that his first indocrination was to a temple outside of china, but, because I have no other evidence, then okay, I can take that as something I've heard.

                          So, now baring in mind, that Shi Yan Ming has been studying buddhism at the temple since he was 5 yrs old and claims to be enlightened, I'll point to him, and quote you this;

                          [quote http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/maga...hp?article=264]
                          O Mi Tofoo
                          In addition, Shaolin Fighting Monk Shi Yan-Ming noted that he hopes others will share in his dream of building a large USA Shaolin Temple similar to the Northern Shaolin Temple in China, but tailored to the American way of life. He hopes that Americans will help to build the USA Shaolin Temple by contributing, even if just in prayer, towards its construction. At this temple, both American Shaolin monks and lay disciples would be taught, as is the current practice at the Northern Shaolin Temple in Henan, China. Monk Shi Yan-Ming also added that both he and his only other Shaolin monk brother living in America, Shi Guo Lin, who presently teaches in Flushing, New York, look forward to contributing to the spread of Chinese martial arts, Buddhism, and Chinese culture in America.

                          Shaolin Fighting Monk Shi Yan-Ming concluded our interview by saying, "I am very glad to answer these questions, since chi kung and martial arts should be the property of everyone. I am at home in America, since I am a Buddhist monk, and the world is my home. We are all the same in the eyes of Buddha. O Mi Tofoo (Buddha bless you!)" It was with the last phrase that the interview began - the same phrase which begins and ends classes at the USA Shaolin Temple in Manhattan. His final words pressed home Shaolin Monk Shi Yan-Ming's often-repeated point that Shaolin martial arts and Chinese philosophy are inseparable. One must combine the external and the internal; the physical and the mental; the visceral and the spiritual. And so we must.

                          [end quote]

                          differently to Shi Guolin and hiis temple and so forth though in that regard and no doubt for reasons that you just dont understand.

                          I'm not sure you understand the mission here at allll, LFJ, and why ppl do what they do and where it fits in with dharma, because you dont understand that neither.

                          As for using buddhism to understand my natural survival actions, yes, I admit it. I do that. It's very central to my love of it, and if I couldn't see where it could make good reason for me, I would no longer consider myself to be a believer of it. I only be me, and the 3 jewels tell me about it. I dont "try" to be buddhist though. I think that's where ppl misunderstand, but, we cover that also, and so does buddha.

                          I think I can also leave with you the concept of wandering shrine and monument monks . do what you like with it.

                          Blooming tianshi lotus.

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                          • #58
                            bL, let's not promote bullshit here.
                            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                            (more comments in my User Profile)
                            russbo.com


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                            • #59
                              finding one's way is probably difficult enough, but, would you like to elaborate any on that comment?

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                              • #60
                                To get back to the original question, what to teach a shaolin monk, i would like to say that the verb teach might be an ego trip and i d rather use the verb discuss, which brings us back to the notion of dialogue in philosophy ie of two persons acknowledging their ignorance in order to reach truth through dialectics.

                                I think one problem shaolin monks have in the west is their ignorance of the reality of the animals industry. For instance they would think that like in China many chicken live in the wild, whereas in KFC plants they live in crowded and often painful situation.

                                Think what you want about PETA but at least they have a useful collections of videos about the suffering of animals.

                                So i would like to make a suggestion to Doc, that is to show them a bunch of videos on www.petatv.com . Do this for me Doc, just let go your ego and you will gain merits in making disappear ignorance about the suffering of living beings.

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