Lo all

[ibluemonkey]

Thanks baiwanxi, i've gotta say the decheng school does look very nice. Now i shall take you advice and go pester the great bald one , out of curiosity do you know how easy it is to arrange flights and travel etc

[Chicken]

ibluemonkey, thanks for the clarification on the monkey's status.

Its very difficult out there to get it right. Some fall on their feet. If you spend any time in the area, you come accross sundry foreigners, who are far from having a swell time.

We used to have Yan Zhang's up our sleeve. Yes the toilets were not much fun and the food wasn't the Ritz, but the majority of those who came through there, had a great time, and frequently came back for more.

I've heard it from the UK warriors that there's been two divorces in the last 6 months... and its those relationships being played out, that have been causing a tremendous amount off issues in Dengfeng, Lon and NY.

Anyway... from what I've heard, De Cheng's and De Yang's are good but pricey. I know of kids out there who are training on a fraction of those costs and getting good gongfu. I can put you in touch with one out there now, having the time of his life.

If money is an issue I suggest you do that. Get in contact with this friend.... if you get on with him, he will help you out. He's there now, he has the run of the town... you could do much worse than take his lead.

It never ceases to amaze me, how many people are out there looking for the equivalent of a package holiday. It makes much better sense, to make some contact with people who are already out there, stay with them or you can get cheap accommodation in Shaolin village for about 3 quid a night. Stay for a week or two before you commit to a place. Talk to foreigners. Find out who has a good thing going. Find out what the name of the good thing going is, i.e. the monk's name, and then try to get it verified by warriors or other people you can trust. I can help you get the place verified if you have no other way of doing this.

It goes without saying that everyone in Shaolin / Dengfeng is in some form of guanxi pyramid (network)... they will try to massage you up the pyramid, as that's how China works.

I was amazed by my other half, who is currently responsible for sending his cousin to Shaolin to train. I thought he would just rely on his guanxi, put him somewhere in his pyramid... but, no, he saw it as time to broaden his guanxi network and he's putting the cousin in the school of one of the monks VERY close to Yong Xin! Some times he's so fierce!

Basically, whatever anyone tells you about going there and living like a foreigner... um, really I don't think that stacks up. If you want to learn gongfu, like the warriors, you got to go for the full immersion. Go to a school that you can verify and trust, even when there isn't another foreigner there. You will get more attention, and you will learn Chinese in like 10weeks - if you have no other foreigners around you. More to the point, you learn a lot more than just how to speak Chinese, you pick up the culture. If you pick up the culture and impress them with your commitment to mastering it, you get on with the people teaching you... if you get on with the people teaching you, you will make some friends, and they will go out of their way to help you.

Yes this runs contrary to a lot of the advice out there. But if you want the best and the cheapest option, and you are prepared to go the "the full experience" I think this is a pretty safe bet. Finally, whatever you do, do not sign up for months of tuition before you get out there and have sussed the place out. I personally can't see any reason why you would go out there for an exploratory trip, and then return to train. Just envisage 2 weeks working the place out before you commit, is the same difference and saves a 500quid airfare.

Let me know if you want me to synch you up with our pal in Dengfeng...

Chicken
P.S. As of last night, I'm back in Guangzhou... and loving it!

[master splinter]

Yo i bluemonkey,

can i ask you a question? When did you start feeling "the chi" why, and what did it feel like.

just wondering...

[baiwanxi]

You should be able to find airfare for no too much. From the U.S. the cheapest I found were around 800 usd, but if you search around you can find cheaper than that. I think Shanghai has an international airport, I think Hangzhou has one too. You can catch a bus from either airport to the train station. From there you can get a train ticket (hard seat 硬座 "ying zuo")(not actually hard) to LuoYang 洛阳 for about 80 rmb or a ying wo 硬卧 (hard sleeper, also not hard and the best way to travel in China) for about 120 rmb. When you get to Luoyang walk out the train station and go directly across the street to the bus station. Walk in and ask the lady at the counter to help you get a ticket to Dengfeng (most busses don't go there directly but pass through and will drop you off). That will cost about 15 to 25 rmb. Super cheap ! Once you notice your in the city, theres no other cities between Luoyang and Dengfeng, then ask to get off. If your worried it might be the wrong city, just ask someone on the bus. Lai Dengfeng ma ?

You can also go through Zhengzhou but I didn't go that way so I can't tell you exact prices or directions.

Also, while in Luoyang you can go to the Longmen Shiku 龙门石窟 Dragon Gate Caves. These are some amazing stone Buddhas carved into a cliff. It's where my avatar pic was taken. Just walk out front of the train station. Catch the 81 for 2 yuan and take it to the last stop. You'll be there. It's an 80 yuan entrace fee but it's awesome.

From Luoyang you can also go to Baima Si 白马寺 White Horse Temple. Supposedly the first Buddhist Temple in China and srill an active temple. Just walk out the train station, take a left, and walk down the right side of the road looking for the bus to Baima Si. Should cost 4 yuan.

Have fun ! It's all easier than it sounds !!!

[azz]

I must say De Cheng's school dose look tempting, I know the price varies but as a ballpark figuer its about $1000 a mounth right??
Oh and bluemonkey when abouts are you planing to arive in china? Im trying to get there as soon as i can but this mite involve qwiting my job so i probaly wont be there till the end of the year

[ibluemonkey]

Okay lets see, Ckicken thanks very much id love to get in touch with this fried in dengfeng to talk about the cheaper training and as long as i can learn traditional gong fu and some internal stuff like taiji im happy if i have to sleep in a barn.

baiwanxi thanks for the tips, i'll definately check them out once i get there assuming everything is still there.

azz im not planning to go for another 16 months or so, around next september possibly, i just really want this to go well so im planning early.

and master splinter I started feeling what i've assumed is my chi about 4-5 years after i started training when i was listening to some music i felt this weird tingling heat/ wave thing around my hands and instantly thought my arm was going to sleep or something, several months later with this feeling getting more common and stronger i went to a taiji chen lesson in norwich (a sort of taster session where everybody just tryed to follow the teacher as he moved through a form) and then i felt this feeling a hundred times stronger than before (strong enough that i had to pause at points as i felt like i was being overwhelmed by it) and when i asked the teacher at the end of the session he said that it was my chi. since then i've never felt it as strongly as that session again but i can feel something almost constantly so i REALLY want ot find out if i can do something with this or if its just going to be annoying me with no purpose for the rest of my life. (course for all i know i could just have a wierd nerve disease that makes me feel these things but im going with chi cos it makes me feel better :P)

[master splinter]

interesting, thanks.

[ibluemonkey]

well that has been my experiance with what i believe to be "chi", has anyone else experianced anything similar or even completely different that they believe is chi?

[Chicken]

ibluemonkey

I think what you are talking about is personal / internal chi... I only notice it disjointed when SHX starts messing around triggering my pressure points... then its a complete bitch as parts of me go to sleep, and there's nothing I can do to wake them up. LOL

I do pick up chi in the atmosphere though. Perhaps the most dramatic experience I have had of it, was just before I met SHX; he was performing. I'm pretty in-tune with chi from yoga... so in this performance, I could feel the chi in all its terrifying ferocity verberating right down to my bones. They don't all channel chi when they perform, and even SHX doesn't channel chi everytime he performs... but when he does, or I'm around another warrior giving off chi, its like being gagged, in that my breath is catched. This is the most outward physical symptom, but emotionally & spiritually, when they are in war-mode its terrifying. I liken it to standing on a train platfom when an express service comes through at high speed without stopping... I generally have to anchor myself to something physical to keep myself anchored in the here and now, as what is going on spiritually is so terrifying.

Chicken

[ibluemonkey]

I think i know what you mean about picking up chi from the atmosphere as when im really concentrating i feel something at the edge of my awareness and when i went to the chinese state circus, when one of the younger monks was doing a hard qigong exercise i could have sworn i could feel chi in the air and i was sitting about twenty feet away.

[ibluemonkey]

what do people think of the feasibility of training in china 3 months then coming back to england for 3 months and repeating for a long period of time (several years) as i think this would a) allow me to keep my funds up and b) not get completely divorced from life in england. Any thoughts/ suggestions?

[baiwanxi]

I think thats a perfect idea ! A teacher at my school (also from America) has just decided he will break his contract and go back home. It's not that his is home sick, he just feels he has gotten all he wanted out of his experience in China. Not that that's how you will feel, it's just one year can be a long time when away from home with no close friends.

Every three months would be good, but also, if you feel you want to stay for longer periods of time you can always save more money and do that. Say, six months in Shaolin and six months home, or Six months in Shaolin and four months home. Anyway, you just need to go there and check out the situation for yourself. If you stay for one month, three months, six months, a year, whatever the situation is you will be able to figure out what YOU want after you get there.

Just get some money together and GO ! Too many people in life talk about what they want to do and don't do it. Just go !!! I have a friend who has been talking about traveling the world for five years. Every time we talk, all I hear is "this summer I'm gone for sure". Don't be that guy ! Just go and everything else will fall into place..

Chose a school to start at and only pay for a short period of time, say one month. Then if your not happy there you can go to another place. I guarantee it will be easy to find a new school once your there. Then when your three months are done, return home. Then you'll know exactly how much money you need for another three months, or if you can take six months, a year, whatever.

The first step is always the biggest. Just choose a school and get your ass over there,,,, or, uhhhh, in my case,,,,, over here.

Plus, if you like eggs and tomatoes, you'll be in heaven ! It's a staple over here. "西红柿炒鸡蛋" "xi hong shi chao ji dan". Mmmmm Mmmmm Tastey !!! That and big fat yummy noodles "刀削面" "dao xiao mian". The best Dao Xiao Mian I have had was in Dengfeng.

[Chicken]

Baiwanxi, your pinyin is almost as bad as mine!!! Yippee!

just want to say, teaching Chinese, in the middle of wherever in China, is in no way similar to living in Dengfeng. Its quite dangerous to extrapolate.

Outside of the major cities, throughout the summer, Dengfeng rivals Yangshuo as far as incidence of foreigners... and as such, there's usually a kicking scene going down for those that aren't going "total immersion" and like to indulge themselves. In the winter... yup its pretty grim and any sensible foreigner is long gone... but there are just a few legendary types that sit out a winter in Dengfeng.... heed my warning, don't mess with them!

OK its a balance exisiting between two worlds. If you stay in one, you have no insight into the other, and vice versa... getting it right is doing joint honours in culture in the university of life... getting close to up-to-speed in each one is a real challenge. For sure you cannot do this by correspondance, you have to be there. I don't think that being in China for a year or 18 months does much damage at all. Yes when you go back home, you will feel horribly out of place. In as much that everyone will be talking about stuff that you haven't a clue about, and you will also be talking about stuff that they haven't a clue about, but more importantly they don't care to have a clue about what you're talking about but you would give just about anything to understand what they are talking about. This is very hard. Clearly this situation rights itself rather quickly... you avoid your friends, they avoid you, you sit at home and watch Richard & Judy... home-town madness returns, by the time you can't bear another Ready Steady Cook episode, you will be right back in there with everyone else again.

This effect lessens as you age. When you are young say 18-19 a year is like 1/3rd of you're adult functioning life... you are at a serious dissadvantage to your peers for some time. Over time of course, this just becomes an internationalist outlook and by the time you are in your late 20s you will start to notice the types that have never been outside their backyards for more than a 2 week vacation.

I seriously suggest you do not come back after 3 months as that is when Culture Shock is likely to be at its peak. How you feel at 3 months is not reflective of how you feel about the place. You are likely to be either totally infactuated with it, or having already fallen vehmenantly out of love with it. Neither state is reflective of how you actually feel about it, so therefore to leave at that time will either wind you up pining for it, or aledging that its one level away from Hell. Both of these situations are not good for your long term outlook, the first one especially in case that you have trouble getting cash together to get back out to China again.

In days of yonder, disappearing off to China for a couple of years, did nothing to improve your employability. Things might be different now, but be warned, sometimes the fact that you can write 'Fluent in Mandarin Chinese & Lethal at Shaolin Gongfu" on your CV, will leave your interviewer in awe, and you will get the job by default. More often than not though, the guy that is picking out the Resumes will either think you are a pr*&%, too clever for the position, or not in it for the long term. Not to mention that if you have gone away for so long that you are having trouble relating to people in the here and now in your home town, you will have a serious handicap in winning interviews, and therefore getting re-employed, unless you have a skill like software engineer, anesthetist, mortician, etc. where very generally being a little bit out-there isn't exactly a hinderance, is going to be a real challenge.

Also if you are talking about 3 months on 3 months off in China & UK, if you work out how to do that by the time you are in your mid 30's, let me know... as it's took me that long, and I suspect that luck played a big part in it.

Cheers,

Chicken

[ibluemonkey]

well afterwards im planning on coming back and doing a degree in medicine or maybe physiotherapy or a vetinary course, and the only thing tying me to england at this point is my girlfriend, but we shall see what happens

[baiwanxi]

WELL, Chicken.

"just want to say, teaching Chinese, in the middle of wherever in China, is in no way similar to living in Dengfeng. Its quite dangerous to extrapolate."

I lived in Dengfeng for a week, I know, only a week. But still, I lived there. So, i'm not "extrapolating" ! If anyone, you're extrapolating by taking for granted that I didn't have any experience of Dengfeng. Tell me, have you ever been to Shaouguang ? How could you say that living whereever I live in China is in no way similar to living in Dengfeng ? My town, Shaouguang is even smaller than Dengfeng ! It's, in many ways, the exact same as life in Dengfeng ! I mean,,,, DAMN,,,, talk about extrapolation !

I agree with the culture shock thing. I didn't take that into account. But I don't think that that would be as big of a problem if learning Shaolin Gongfu is really where your heart lays. Right now my heart lays with living in and experiencing China, and honestly, when I got here I hardly felt any culture shock while a couple of the other guys were crying about how bad they wanted to go back home. Why ? Because I wanted to be here, really and truely with all my heart.

I don't mean to bark back, but you hit a sore spot. I've traveled all over China, and completely by myself, and I thought I made it abundantly clear in this thread that I had been to Dengfeng before. How would I not know what it was and is like ?

SHIT.........

On another note, there's nothing wrong with my pinyin at all. How could I write the Chinese I did if I didn't use proper pinyin ???????

What,,, I mean,,,,,, SHIT !!!!!!

我写拼音写得很好！看了我的拼音。 这个拼音错了吗？别告诉我我写得拼音比你写得拼音差不多不好！好吧。
wo xie pinyin xie de hen hao ! kan le wo de pinyin. zhege pinyin cuo le ma ? bie gaosu wo wo xie de pinyin bi ni xie de pinyin chabuduo bu hao ! haoba.

如果我写中文得不好，我对不起。但是我的拼音写对了！ ruguo wo xie zhongwen de bu hao, wo duibuqi. danshi wo de pinyin xie dui le !