Ejaculation: Negative Effects on Internal Energy Work

[master splinter]

why not, dentures can be a pain but when granny takes em off....well thats another story. protien shake anyone?

[daodejing]

Incidentally, that formula given earlier was mostly lung qi and spleen qi tonics, with additional herbs for regulating stagnant qi and tonifying/moving blood.

If you're getting headaches from it, not only should you stop taking it, but you may have some problems with liver yin deficiency.

[daodejing]

*smacks self in face* yeah, bu zhong yi qi tang, chiefly for spleen and stomach deficiency. If you're oversexed you should be taking a kidney tonic, not a spleen qi tonic.

[master splinter]

ephedra,ephedra,ephedra,ephedra,ephedra,ma huang, ma huang ma huang, green tea, green tea, green tea, heart attack heart attack heart attack, boy, i sure would love to learn how to make tonics and stuff, that would be so fu**ing awesome DUUUUUDE! tcm is cool. i dont care what anyone says.

[Zhao Yun]

I find this thread, as well as the focus of thought within it to be fascinating, as well as pivotal. Sex is at the core of our genetic human nature, as well as an essential part of spirituality... but it is also a major factor in the flow of our chi. I think then that it is important for us to study its affect on our chi, and how we might be able to better improve our sex, to improve our lives. Sex is one of the things most people spend most of their time thinking about, and the least of their time practicing correctly.

I believe that because of the natural tendency of women to absorb yang energy (such as for fertilization of the egg by drawing the male yang energy into the womb) women live longer than men. The husband dies sooner because the wife has spent their lives together slowly draining him of energy, that is, unless he is a master, and has learned to either control or conserve his vital essence.

I would like to quote a paragraph from a website. You can read it fully here: http://www3.la.psu.edu/textbooks/PM-China/ch7_main.htm

"Daoists tended to regard men as being in greater danger of suffering from a weakening of their yang energies than were women from a weakening of their yin energies. Therefore, for men to have sex with women was a primary way of recharging their yang energies via contact with female yin energy. Sexual union with men would also be beneficial for women, enhancing their yin energies, though women were generally considered to be much stronger than men when it came to retaining their vital energies. So, in this way of thinking, men needed women more than women needed men. As Wang Ping explains:

In [D]aoist sexual alchemy, human bodies become symbolic furnaces where elixir could be extracted through sexual union between yin and yang. This practice was later turned into cai yin shu, a sheer harvesting of yin from female bodies through intercourse. A man gathered or stole yin from as many women as possible to repair his broken yang until he gained health, longevity, and even immortality. (Wang Ping, Aching for Beauty: Footbinding in China [Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press, 2000], p. 92)

At a pragmatic level, of course, sexual "training" with various partners is likely to have had more of an appeal to men than to women. Before you decide to skip steps 1-3 and get started right away on sexual training, be aware that such training was rigorous and bore little resemblance to modern recreational sex. Indeed such sexual training was more like a battle in which men and women sought to obtain each other's bodily fluids and essences. In this battle, to attain orgasm was to go down to defeat (especially for men; in this view, women suffered much less of a loss from orgasms). Insofar as people today might regard sexual activities as an aid to good health, the physical and psychological release of orgasm is usually a major beneficial component. In Daoist sexual training, precisely the opposite was the case. Especially for men, ejaculation was the road to a feeble and short life.

The actual details of the techniques varied, but the basic idea was for men to engage in sexual intercourses with one or more women (one text recommends 10 per day) and attain a high degree of excitement without ejaculation. This process cultivates sexual energy (jing 精) as a man absorbs as much yin as possible without relinquishing any of his yang. The additional yin strengthens him by further enhancing his store of yang vitality.

A slight variation might involve a man having sexual intercourse with one woman such that she has a succession of orgasms but he has none. Suppose that such a couple were to start this process and not stop, orgasm after orgasm (for her only). There would be no long-term effect on the woman. For the man, however--according to one training manual--the following benefits would accrue from his partner's orgasms 1-9: 1) his voice becomes clear; 2) his skin is clarified; 3) his eyes and ears become acute; 4) his bones and connective tissues are strengthened; 5) his buttocks and groin becomes tight; 6) the vessels carrying blood and qi open up; 7) life-long diseases are cured; 8) his lifespan is extended; 9) he attains immortality. Good luck guys--and remember not to ejaculate!

In another variation of this basic idea, a man could indeed ejaculate, at least by contemporary understandings of this action. Suppose that a couple begins a training session and the man continues for a very long time without orgasm. But then, the moment of his climax approaches and his partner presses hard on his urethra between the scrotum and the anus just at the moment of ejaculation. This pressing will divert the seminal fluid into the bladder. Although the fluid thus diverted would eventually leave the body through urination, Daoists regarded it has having been "conserved." The entire process was thought to circulate yang energy, via jing, throughout a man's body, eventually nourishing his brain. (For those interested in the technical term for this practice, it ishuanjing bunao shuo還精補脳説, which literally means something like "the theory of the circulation of jing enhancing the brain".)"


I am curious if any of you are familiar with the technique of conserving the energy, and recirculating jing to nourish the brain. I would also like to raise several other questions regarding wet dreams, and sexual vampirism.

It was said that sexual vampirism is karmically bad. I could not agree more whole heartedly. It is a negative act to misuse the innocence of the spirit to steal the energy of others without their knowledge, but I do not feel it is negative to share and even take the energy, if it is given with a blessing. Perhaps that is being redundant, and not what you had in mind when you meant sexual vampirism.

Mostly, I am curious why there has been so much discussion on the reality of lucid dreaming, and its affect on the libido, but little to no talk of the astral. Surely with people on this forum being trained with various styles of forms of energy work, there are those of you who are familiar with the astral. Beyond that, I am curious what the opinions are of the way in which energy is shared or vamped between people who are making love with their energy, but not physically present in the same room. I do not mean necessarily having their consciousness out of body, but focusing and feeling the energy on the other in a conscious state. Does this cause the jing energy to be burned in quite the same way, or does all forms of non physical lovemaking raise the jing upwards, turning it into chi and shen. Is the unity of the spirit empowering in purity, rather than depleting? Am I alone in my experiences here? I should hope not, but perhaps this is a subject that is considered most private to people, and thus not privvy to sharing on a public forum. In any case, I would love feedback on the issue.

Best regards.

--Greg

[LeiYunFat]

Nice first post. I have no experience with this. I just head of sexual vamprism just now, aside from several past porns that have dealt with it.

Heh, those sucked.

[shaolinstylee]

Welcome, and nice post.

[zachsan]

whatever happened to just enjoying a good lay?

[daodejing]

To clarify what I meant by sexual vampirism, I meant the specific predatory attempt, whether performed by a man, woman, or spirit, to seduce a person and engage them sexually for the sole purpose of stealing essence and or energy.

As for the issue internal alchemy, in my experience, one can engage in sex, and ejaculate, without depleting one's self. It is a simple matter of redirecting the energy which is released during an ejaculation.

One method, is pressing on Huiyin (ren 1, the perineum) and thus redirecting one's jing.

Another, is to draw all of one's energy inward and upward throughout the orgasm and for several minutes after the orgasm. Not only does this method prolong one's orgasm significantly, but leading the energy directly through the spinal cord into the brain is quite beneficial to most meditative practices.

Needless to say, the latter form can be used to energize the shen of both partners to a great degree, especially by supplementing the practice of coitus by drawing in additional energy from heaven and earth.

As for all things astral, I don't beleive I've traveled the astral plane recently. I'm still working on communicating with local spirits before I venture that far out........

[blooming tianshi lotus]

Nice explaination Daodejing.

[QUOTE=Paul702]
Taoist methods also include vampirism based off of the teachings and exploits of Liu Dung-Bin who is a famous immortal who did his share of womanizing and Qi stealing. Liu would hold off ejaculation and instead steal Qi from his mates. One woman tricked him and became an immortal.

How then does this not equate to his lack of attatchment vs theirs????


"White Peony" tricked Liu Dung-Bin by pressing a certain point on his body just when he was holding off ejaculation, she forced it to come anyway and thus she became immortal from his super-charged essence.
QUOTE]

Now we're talking vampirism !!! Same thing as be conned out of it really .............. submission under duress or against will or something ???? Taking energy without permission or submitting it to someone under pretense is not a healthful fruitful exchange. ..................

but moving on;

On that last post I guess I was in a bit of hurry so my comment was just a retoriation of what I's said before. I know you do though Rich and I have a feeling you're not alone.

Personally, I'd rather hear more about Zachs drinking but while we're talking about the "slut thing" and the "$$$ thing " anyway, Try this on................


You pick up a chick ( or a picked up by a chick) . The sex is so bad you loose esteem, or is sooo good that the poor suckers catch a feeling , so you either A. lol and have to write it off as a somewhat negative experience ( comprimising your qi until you're enlightened to the growth lesson or do it again again and loose more and more with a bigger lesson to find) , or B. you decide the sex was good enough, so you book a second ( or 3rd or 4th ) booty call and soon they're calling you all the time and , making demands, giving you emotions and thought baggage and repercussive dramas occur.

Soon, you have a more permanent temporary arrangement
producing what for what reason??? So how many ppl get loxcked into that type of dilema and either spend entire lfetimes dissatisfied or wake up to it later to realise the time the could've spent having some good love???
Remember, you didn't hook up with them because you liked their personality and were on the same wave length so much as because they were f*ckable. And realistically, you might not even have even spoken to them about anything other than direct small smooth talking tuning ............... so anyway, you get stuck inthat groove and begin to feel less and less satisfied and given then given how good and fulfilling sex really is when you're not laden down with this type of bs in your sub or other conciousness, you know you comprimise your climazx buzz and your after buzz both............... bummer no???

So you move on and try the same trick again and you end up sleeping with a whole bunch of ppl who A. are likely to get attatched ( because yes, you really were that good ..........or they just needed the drama as much as you did ) and you never get the quality relationship , trust or sex you know you deserve. So , you get bummed out from all the pretense and dirty qi and you can'r fugure out why the heck is just doesn't work out . You're a hottie right !!!!!??? You might even make yourself sick .............literally and then add all the stoopid jazz you do after that to prove it other wise and what a f*ck around of a bs drama for a hard learnt lesson!!!!!!!


Okay..................

So scene 2 :

You and chick babe are walking down the street. She buys you something ...........for no reason at all........... You go home and have sex to balance the score. It's apparently quite a good deal, so you see her again . She buys you more jazz and so it continues. Soon you come to believe that she does it because you're worth it , it's your birth right!!! You in turn come to believe that she could never have done it on her laurels. She then believes the same thing. You feel like a whore and sell out for something real and she feels like she doesn't deserve a good relationship or couldn't get one unless she paid for it. So here's this whole negative qi exchange exaccerbating itself and comprimising your peace and happiness. How do you have good qi and remain elightened when your head is full of these subtle ( or not so ) thoughts??? So anyway it expounds for you personally and get this whole fettered thing going on ( and the more you keep it to yourself the more it grows) and then all the things that go with that...........like illness and distractions and bad daily buzzes and low esteem and insomnia and lack of body repair from sleep and bad diet and lack of motivation and so it goes............

The thing with this is that you both set and accepted the parameters of the dynamic when the first "gift" was bought and received. From there , the 'programme' just ran itself.

"Does that mean you can't buy gifts for ppl you care about then" ???

No way!! You better godammed buy me a gift sometime but the difference though is in confusing the nature of the gift.
See, Imo when you give a gift , the whole nature of giving is that one gives, one receives and the transaction stops. You do it because you want them to have it and not because you expect it to make them care more for you. It is not a bribe or an exchange for obligation ( leading to god knows what feelings and behavioural bs drama neither of you want ) of any descprition , it is a gift. They care ( realistically ) for other reasons altogether. You buy it because you care..................... and because you want to express that you do. If you don't feel secure enough to do it under those terms, perhaps you should rethink the whole thing. Don't be proud about it, don't expect praise for it, but be grateful that you had whatever feeling it was that lead you to want to acknowledge it. This is your humilty . .........( as opposed to their pleasure despite the "apparent" great or smallness of whatever it was you gave them) and not on real terms, a prospect of return . Truth ( and not neccessarily verbal honesty ) begets trust ( and trust begets trust ( which still needed that truth initially ) and trust begets that great sex you know you want and if you're keen , the opportunity to turn into a physical stimuli good media to detatch from and acheive higher levels of qi and awareness and so on).

I'm sure this is really complicated for some of you to grasp, but I also know that someone will benifit.


Now about Zachs drinking!!!????............. need someone to relate to ha ????? lol...........


Blooming Tianshi

[LeiYunFat]

My eyes hurt from too much chlorine and stuff. I just read Steve's comment and left. Sorry, BL.

[daodejing]

Damn girl, damn.

I don't even know where to start on that. You got more issues than national geographic.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

Figures

fair enough, thinking can be b*tch can it not

BL

[doc]

Truth ( and not neccessarily verbal honesty ) begets trust ( and trust begets trust ( which still needed that truth initially ) and trust begets that great sex you know you want and if you're keen , the opportunity to turn into a physical stimuli good media to detatch from and acheive higher levels of qi and awareness and so on).

LYF, you should read her comment. She actually does make some interesting and good points, and, to make it more fascinating, from a woman's perspective. Read into it. Don't just read it.

[zachsan]

if you can keep track of what set of parentheses you're in.