cheating, lying mother f***ers

[onesp1ng]

doc likes to speak in riddles most of the time...it's only the truly learned, deserving...that understand.

.........................

[tetsumaru]

I don't think Yan ming and goulin were great friends. I think I remember Yan min not liking the fact that goulin was stealing his students($), when goulin started up. This is all hearsay anyway until one of them posts something....

[mortal]

This is what I mean. They could be your best friend one moment and over something stupid hate you the next.

Yanming told me from his own mouth that they were close. He also has many pics of just the 2 of them taken by students.

[doc]

Well, I've heard more of the "not like each other" than "best buddies" story.

And, I don't speak in riddles; I'm just trying to stir up some thought. OK, a hint.

How old are these guys....

[tetsumaru]

Both of these men have spent a great many years training at the temple. Shi Goulin was then picked for the same performance team as Shi Yan Ming. They defected together.

I don't think Yan Ming spent alot of time at the "temple". He was taught by some shaolin masters and then trained at the "temple" for a few years to join the tour group, so i've heard. I don't know as much about goulin's pre-US years but I heard he was a bad kid and got into trouble alot getting kicked out and such. I don't think they defected together. In fact I'm pretty sure Yan Ming left on his own and ended up in a cab that just dropped him off at a chinese restaurant because he didn't speak english. Goulin, I think, was sent over here by Yong Xin.

I question the validity of all the martial arts teachers because I have seen people and myself get lied to and only after spending gobs of cash training the realization that what was learned was a bunch of snake poo or something that they (the teachers) learned from watching videos and dubbed themselves masters. See here in the mid-west (metro-detroit specifically) there's alot of phonies and no openly teaching shaolin teachers (Robert Brown Doesn't count...if you know who he is I'll tell you a funny story).

I question the validity of Goulin's gong-fu because of what I've heard but I don't question Yan Ming. I have trained with him and he was great. I guess I wouldn't be satisfied unless I was trained by someone like Grandmster Suxi or someone of that stature and even then I would wonder if he would teach me everything, because I'm not chinese!

[doc]

Smoke and mirrors. Beware the smoke and mirrors.

You have much to learn.

[arhat]

School is now in session.

Guo Lin was kicked out of the temple.

He was allowed back. I don't remember if it was Xing Zhen who kicked him out. What he did to warrant that was never brought up. Guolin does not eat meat or drink or anything because he is a buddhist from outside of Shaolin. Hence the "Guo" part of his name, which he keeps as opposed to using his Shaolin dharma name. You will notice there is no Guo in the generational poem. And unlike Wan Heng, who is from a different Ch'an family, Guolin is just from another temple first. Usually in Chinese buddhism there is a really strict hegemony, and it trends to some ultraorthodox mistranslations of the pali canon.

Anyway...

Guo Lin and Yan Ming were in the same generation. In some of those years the temple was not like, an insular, closed up place. Many people came and went, and there wasn't the costume parade they have now. And it wasn't always the safest place to be all the time. There are like, families, and that is how you came up. Like now, there are basically 2 camps left. Anyway, obviously they knew each other, I have heard some unsubstantiated rumors about what some of them say about each other or have been said to say about each other but it doesn't pay to repeat them really. I never trained with Guolin so I only know that sometimes SYM will say Guolin should get back in shape more, but he doesn't bad mouth him like how you hear some people go on. And honestly anything Guolin says about SYM, I would think is more coming from SYX, because let's face it, if SYM were to swear fealty, adn become SYX's disciple, all his "problems", not that he really has any, lol, would no longer be an issue. You know, much of the bad mouthing to me, it would be like me yelling at my brother to kick higher. In fact, Guolin has sent some students to us and also some news crews so I take all the bad mouthing rumors with big grains of salt. Obviously there are hard feelings there also, and the influence of SYX in the whole game is huge and a driving factor.

Guolin trained in a family style before coming to Shaolin, and Yan Ming's first masters were also folk masters who had been taught gong fu from the temple- a lot of folk masters actually saved some of the gong fu. Some were used for proving purposes. He picked up some of the rare styles he knows from these two guys. His dharma master was Shi Yong Chen. I do not know who Guolin's was, but now, and this is rather ironic, it is Yong Xin, as is everyone's. Well...not everyones redone their vows but most have. But the temple was in a real state in those days, it wasn't uncommon for there to be folk masters and monks and everything all mixed together. SYM told me there was a farmer who lived in one building or something back then. And you had one of the four olds- Su Yun- with his whole family living there- I think 1 of his kids even became a monk. It was at that time that a lot of them started to really question the whole celibacy thing. Thank God, if you ask me. So the more you learn about the temple, the more you need to figure out what this means to you and if what you think it should be can handle what it really was. If it makes a big difference to you that the temple was in this state, I think it speaks more about you and your preconcieved carradine notions than anything else. Me, I knew a couple of monastics and already had my illusions busted so I'm not looking for anything but realness, lol...

If you look at some of the coffee table books, which feature these guys, you can see they all wore brand new robes. I was told that is because a lot of them didn't have any robes, the temple couldn't afford them in more than one way until the gov started getting involved. But you can clearly see Guolin and Yan Ming together in the pages of the books. One of Guolin's students once said that Guolin said he never heard of SYM. Either Guolin was saying this under pressure of being now committed to SYX, which I think is accurate to say looking at the shift in public statements and rhetoric, or the student was cracked or misheard. In the early years, Guolin was quoted as saying that only he and Yan Ming were fully ordained monks on that tour, something that Yan Ming has also corroborated but never publicly dissed any of the wushu guan disciple monks or otherwise. Anyway, even though they knew each other SYM was closest with De Yang in those early days. It's pretty obvious when you see them together. I remember one time we brought SDY over as a surprise present for the 10yr anniversary, we had SDY behind a curtain so you couldn't see him, with a light projecting his shadow. SYM was told it was one of our senior students, just to keep the ruse going. Well as soon as SDY moved, SYM said, Ah! Master De Yang!

Anyway I think it is important to sort of dispel what people think the temple was like. You know, everyone says they grew up "in the temple." But it is not like the temple was one building, it's a complex.

You know the robe thing, this could also just be because they wanted to look nice for the shots. You never know so you have to take everything with a grain of salt. but SYM told a story once that when he got his first set, it really affected him very deeply.

On that tour of the US- arranged by a master in Florida- Yan Ming, Guolin (whose dharma name is Yan Si) and I think one other left.

After hiding out in basements and such, Yan Ming made it out to NY. So eventually did Guolin. They wound up with another monk, who Xing Zhen had sent, Shi Yan Chang, who left Shaolin much earlier. Obviously they had some help when they left. But Yan Chang, he never really did anything with his kung fu, he was just running a temple on Pike St. Yan Ming, and Guolin, stayed there and began helping him out. Eventually they all taught martial arts together. The heat was on for the PRC to get back Yan Ming and they sent a lot of agents to try and do that. I can only assume the same was true for Guolin. Obviously, they did not succeed.

When, before, or just after they started teaching- the story goes that at some point in time Guo Lin for some reason decided to take San Bao Di Zi under Yan Chang. This caused a lot of rumors to spring up that neither Guolin nor Yan Ming were "real" monks. Anyone around the early Shaolin scene in NY will remember endless cycles of this bullshit. I'm not sure why Guolin decided to do that, but this then made SYM his gong fu uncle so to speak. Some further points, SYC and the "new" abbot SYX were friends, I was told that SYC actually saved YX's life once when his life was in danger- SYX usurpation did not sit well with everyone you know. Another monk was named to be abbot, Yong Hai I think was his name, but before anyone really knew what was going on it was too late. Someone was going after YX and SYC literally stepped in front like a human shield. That story goes a lot deeper but maybe is not suited for public consumption. Anyway YX did not treat SYC very well despite that, if memory serves me right it had to do with some kind of action SYX wanted in HK. The story is SYC was heart broken over it. Also some time after SYM and I guess Guolin were somewhat established in their new spots, some of SYMs students left and took San Bao Di Zi with SYC and this started a new round of bullshit, which seemingly drove SYC to close up and spend some time back in China. From what I heard he was very unhappy with these hengs he had brought up and some of the shit they were slinging while grinding a grudge out. If you tracked a couple of SYM's former students you would probably find where they wound up rather interesting.

Well when the 3 were together eventually there was some kind of falling out between the 3 of them. One of them tried to pull a move over the others to show authority. The other two were not having it. Rumors you would have heard about at this time were gambling problems, money problems, all kinds of crazy shit. I don't know about that stuff and I would wager that the real reasons for the split were more mundane than squandered donation money, because of the description of how the power move went down.

I guess at this point SYM was basically resolved to just do his thing. Guolin aparently struck a deal with SYX. I imagine he felt isolated and needed some back up. SYM I think got hitched up with some people who probably did not have his best or Shaolin's best interest at heart. With Guolin, probably money goes back to YX, who knows, but that seems to be the M.O. SYM wasn't having anything to do with SYX, felt real strongly about how he becam abbot and what he was doing about it, so he just started a new school/temple over a fish shop. There was no heat, no running water, no lights- he had flashlights duct taped to the walls. He would turn them on for class, and as soon as class was over and everyone out he would shut them off to save the batteries.

Guolin learned a lot of his gong fu from a family style. I've heard recently from some people he is a little rusty in his Shaolin. I sort of feel bad for him because he is in a weird spot with this whole DeMasco sh!t.

[doc]

You know, everyone says they grew up "in the temple."

Beware Arhat.

Remember what yo daddy from the dark side told you. Smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors....


Oh, nice to see you back man.

[arhat]

oh yeah...i like my proof in the pudding, lol...i'm just sayin the idea of the temple needs some reworking in many people's heads. you know a lot of people think it is like, one building or something.

something else I remembered- yong xin was also kicked out for a time, and then allowed back in too wasn't he...?

[doc]

That's not what I meant.

And, as for YX, he has in "interesting" history, which I've mentioned somewhere in the past.

[Firbolg]

Its like a shaolin version of "Soap"

[Maestro]

more like, who really cares i cant believe i read arhats whole post

the monks dont deserve all this scrutiny and popularity, they arent that good. just recently wang zi pings daughter died i wonder how many of you shaolin wonder boys even has a clue who he is.

who really gives a **** about what monk did what? they arent monks, i dont care what bullshit is thrown out there, monks are reclusive and live in temples they dont live in the city and have babys and drink wine and whatever. i dont even care about monastics rules its just the whole facade of "shaolin monk" most of them arent even good enough to be called a "shaolin monk" anyway.

they all talk about the same bullshit to..oh we wanna help people learn buddhism and "REAL" kung fu, when in reality theres a billion ****ing people in china and they could easily pass on their supposed "real" kung fu to a shitload more of them, not to mention the chinese are for the most part alot more disciplined then some cocksucking american whos seen to many jet li movies and thinks kung fu is gonna make them the king of the martials arts world

[mortal]

Still whining maestro! Most kungfu I have seen that wasn't shaolin isn't very good.

That is all I have to say since we have pounded this subject into the floor.

Merry ****ing Christmas and a happy mother fudging new year. yes even to you hung a wannabees

[Maestro]

mortal, for one if you havent seen any good kung fu besides the monks wushu, espcially being in NYC outside of your beloved grados, then you dont know good kung fu

sorry but its obvious from the bullshit you say, often.

and what do you think, what..what if a mma showed you his "art" and just threw a few jabs and kicks oh thats shit kung fu right, because its not fast and flashy wushu bullshit. most of the mma guys would take a monk and make him a pretzel if not knock them straight the **** out.

i can picture just about any monk layin there unconcious with their body stiff, while afterwards talkin some crazy shit about oh if i used my death technique theyd be dead oooooooooooooooo

why i say you dont know good gung fu when u see it is because u obviously do not. i mention ren guangyi and i would put money on him vs grados anyday. i say novell bell and maoshan and you say pffft. i say william cc chen another pfft. i say frank yee, pfffft they all shit right... right

[mortal]

You get all worked up into a lather real quick don't you? Anyday you want to meet and do something about it let me know. Then we will see who has real kungfu and who does hungar. lolo Grados would wipe his ass with those guys.

Lets just agree to disagree.

One post you make like you agree then the next I am under attack. One post your kidding around the next your acting like a punk. bi-polar maybe. Or just didn't take your meds?

Also you are making an ass out of yourself on other forums. Lets keep our little flame war here between us. I admit I bated you with that post and you fell for it hook line and sinker. You probably fight the same way. One little fake you go for it I knock your slow stiff hunggar ass into next sunday.