Shi De Cheng: wuseng, su jia di tz, real, fake....

[blooming tianshi lotus]

I dont want to insult you just now, so I wont, but is there an accessable copy somewhere of the vows the wuseng have actually taken? Have 'U'seen those Rich?? ...... We can all read a sutra and do some math but are those vows something the rest of us can see??

[doc]

I haven't seen them. I'm sure that they exist. When I took that beginning level of vows at the temple with Decheng and the group of monks he put together that day, I really don't remember them reading from a book. They did a lot from memory as I recall. It was only a twenty minute or so ceremony, but, still impressive nonetheless.

Now, what I did, is, from what I'm told, the same thing that Decheng and the other wuseng did. In fact, just about all of the students that "wear orange robes" and are referred to as "monks", don't currently go through this ceremony, nor did many go through it in the past.

It's all kind of bizarre, when you think about it.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

... u haven't huh.. I reeeally don't wanna hurt you here but considering what they're saying about Decheng you wanna tell us the vows that ýour' ceremony entalied ?? . .. and about your story...That kinda stuff gets interesting to us lay ers

[doc]

It's in the Fugue section, under Discipleship, I think.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

not even close . all I could find was the 'how to become a shaolin monk' thread ( and some really cute Doc -love comments btw ) , and nooo vows .... so reeally Richard... the promises you made to live by?????.... I jus dont believe for a minute you dont have other thoughts about it ....... ......whatever...........

so no vows then. and ppl say Decheng was never indocrinated and you and Gene are shaolin gods nonetheless ...... well Oookay. i'm just going to agree.
.
Sheesh. No wonder ppl get confused.

[doc]

It's in the Site Content / Fugue / Vows section, found via the java menu.

You can also use the russbo Search engine, also in the java menu. The 'rules" are in there.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

So I found the thread aand I read the code which said sweet little to nothing..

That's not clear at all and it does not give any more than a reeally basic outline of concepts to expand on.
From what I can tell, most of what we did get there is designed to do little more than confuse the hell out of anyone reading it enough so they'll feel like they actually got some information.
If you don't want to share then I don't really want to get into it either.
Thx.

[onesp1ng]

Here they are for everyone's perusal.... I'm especially fearful of the last Buddhist monastic discipline: never make a fool out of yourself!?! That's going to be difficult.

-------------------------------

SIX COMPONENTS OF A FORMAL PROCLAIMATION

1, INVITING THE SAGE: The master and the audience(monks) stand up and recite in chorus the following: We respectfully invite your presence and welcome you with flowers, disciple so and so has been in search of Buddhism wholeheartedly but without any avail while in fact Buddhas, masters and monks are all over. Recitation is done three times each time followed by kowtowing sentence by sentence with the master at the leading.

2, CONFESSIONS: Then the master call the believer to be and the latter answered by his name. In the past I have committed many sins and that is because I was greedy, easy to get hateful and idiotic. My words, acts and ideas were wrong in many respects since I was born. I want to confess all that.

3, THE FORMAL PROCLAIMATION: The master calls the believer to be and the latter replies his name. My body and my life belong to the Buddha. My body and my life belong to the Buddhist Masters. My body and my life belong to the Monk. (repeat three times). I swear to the Buddha, the Master and the monk(thrice).

4, SAY PRAYERS(SWEAR): The master calls the believer to be and the latter answers by name. The living creatures are numberless, I vow to persuade them to follow the Buddhism. The worries are endless I vow to get away from. Buddhism is measureless I vow to learn; Buddhist dharma is supreme I vow to follow.

5, INDICATION OF GONGDE(KINDNESS AND VIRTURES DONE FOR OTHERS AND NEVER THINKING OF ANY RETURN OR BEING REMEMBERED): In the Guanding Scriptures it is said that as from the moment as being proclaimed a believer one is always escorted by thirty-six gods of benevolence and their numberless relatives to keep him in peace and happiness. It is said in the Jiao Liang Gong De Scriptures that if the three thousand boundless universes were full of Buddhas as the paddies and bamboos and human beings are provided for with support, they would live twenty thousand years. After passing away of all the Buddhists, temples are built with flowers. It is more fortunate yet not as if there are human beings. The human beings should be purged from the bottom of the heart and become believers of Buddhism. That is the real GONGDE.

6, GIVING : All GONGDE should be given to all the flesh so that everyone could go living in the other pure world(chanted by disciples sentence by sentence at the leading of the master). GONGDE of the Proclaimation is extremely benevolent . The boundless fortune is all giving away. Wishing all the indulging living creatures go the numberless brilliant Buddhist temples without any exception..



C, MASTER XIE HONGYI`S TRIRATNA VERSE(with slight additions or omissions)

FIRST, RESPECT THE BUDDHA: Regard the Buddha statues as genuine Buddhas always in a dignified manner. Never make fun or lie down or squat in face of worshipping as if in presence of a friend from the overseas when you cannot be informal, not even let alone to face a Buddha. Worship should not be done in haste, one should rather do less worships. The worshipping furnitures and utensils shall always be kept clear. Worshipping should be before noon time and never later than that when it is easy to induce trouble. Because Buddhas are prohibited to take any food after noon time. Not even fruit. Offers to Buddha should be human edibles and should be fine cooking and never offer ingredients or canned food. Flowers offered must be fresh and the water should be replenished from time to time. All incenses and candles shoud be burnt each time. Buddha pictures should be glass-framed and statutes enshrined or covered and kept clean. Never do any of the following in front of a Buddha: blow wind, (drying clothes should only be done to the side of a Buddha), poise in slanting, never water flower before the Buddha with urine. Never use urinal if the Buddha is worshipped in your chamber, nor be barebody or in shorts., one must cover up oneself completely while sleeping.

SECOND, RESPECT BUDDHISM: Buddhism dharma is the mother of all the Buddhas and the teacher of Bodhisttva, i.e.: the Tathagata relics . As described in the JINGGUANG scriptures where there is a Buddha there should be respect from the Buddhist followers; that everywhere there are scriptures over all the world. And from the sky and human beings to the AXIULO all should be worshipped. And that all Buddhas and all Buddhist Amio Bodhisttvas are from there. So you have to be most pious. Master OUYUN said that when reading the Buddhist scriptures it is as if you are seeing the living Buddha. When you close the scripture books it is still in front of you and you read it again and again and never forget it , sleeping or awake. In this way you learn. Always hold the Scriptures in both hands instead of a single one and do that as high up as to your bosom . Never salute or bow with Scriptures in hand. Close the scripture book when you leave but never fold any part of the page to help you to remember.You can put in a piece of paper instead. Do not make any marks or alterations on the scriptures book or dirt it. A broken or damaged scriptures book should be repaired but not burnt.

THIRD, RESPECT FOR THE MONKS: Trinatna depend on monks, therefore any body cut clear-headed and in a Kasaga is regarded a Buddhist disciple and he shoud be respected wihout any discrimination and no difference between those having broken and those holding up the dharma.. either virtuous or not. Everyone is a teacher for the Budddhist. In talking always self address yourself a follower. It should be the same in worshipping. Buddhists from any section of the religion must be respecful and honest to be beneficial. So Master YINGUANG said the Buddhist dharma can be sought only through respectfulness. As far as the respect goes the sin would be prevented and happiness and wisdom come along. The more the respect the less the sin and the more the luck and the wisdom. Without respect with blasphemy, sins will increase and luck with wisdom decreases.Therefore one wishing to be the proclaimed will encounter a unprecedented situation with full respectful mind to listen to the Buddhist voice and he will become lucky and wise. I wish all fellow disciples encourage one another in our behaviours. Being proclaimed one must understand what the masters explains and if one does not understand or did not get it clearly could not be proclaimed until the master repeat it to give him a clear understanding. So the master must have a very clear correct understanding of the scriptures.The above guidelines of old master YINGUANG and master HONGYI are quoted to declare myself and for all our fellow followers to learn. What is most important for a believer is that he comes back home like the son back to his mother or repent. Because he deviated from the Buddhist dharma and now comes back. There are two kinds of conscious abbots. The first kind are very conscious act instinct like Buddhas. Dharma means norm i.e. norms of virtues and morals observed by living creatures. Monks mean peace and quiet i.e. the hearts are taintlessly clear. The abbot in a Buddhist temple. Buddhas mean all the statues there, dharma means all Buddhist Scriptures. Monks are those away from home living in a Buddhist temple including those cut clear-headed and in a Buddhist cape. Furthermore Buddhas are everywhere including all Buddhas, Dharma is all the norms observed by all the monks everywhere . Monks are all the sages everywhere in the world including all the worldly monks. Therefore believers should not say that he follows master so and so but rather he follows all masters and monks, from Buddhisattva and arhats down to Buddhist novices. This point should never be misunderstood which if so would lead to a situation the important is forgoten and and the minors remembered. And forget the public interest for personal ones. Any master in witness of the proclaimation is but one to be a witness.

Therefore the teachings of masterYINGGUANG and master HONGYI are quoted to declare myself.

ESSENCE OF THE PROCLAIMATION: From this moment as proclaimed a Buddhist believer, one will never follow any other religion; from the moment as proclaimed to follow the Buddhist Dharma one will never follow doctrines in any other claasic books; as from this moment of proclaimation to follow monks, one will never follow any evil ways. It is said in the Fangang Scriptures as an additional admonish that the five hundred arhats worshipped by some people are not even as good as an ordinary monk. It is important that a monk learned that anywhere should never say anything irresponsibly. This is strictly probibited by Buddhism. It is said in Fanguang Scriptures that the monks , nuns in the temples and those not living in the temples are really overcautious. It indicates but a follower must be very very careful. The above records examples of common errors, so all our fellow followers could better observe the dharma. so that one gets further away from sins and closer to fortunes. In a word, Buddhist dharma can be learned only through respect. No short way. Let us encourage one another in our endeavours.

FIVE ADMONISHES TO OBSERVE : Never kill any living creatures, one lives a long and healthy life; never steal or rob any assets , one gets properties and wealthy; never be licentious or wicked, one gets ones lover and repayed; never tell lies, one is honest and trustworthy; never drink wine so one gets cleverer and wiser.

TEN BUDDHIST MONASTIC DISCIPLINES: Never kill any living creatures; never steal or rob; never be licentious or be wicked; never talk empty words; never be a doubledealer; never curse; never be covetous; never hate or bear grudges against any one; and never make a fool of yourself.

[Maestro]

onesp1ng do u teach english in japan? or something like that

if your the one who does that could u pm me

[dave l.]

WHERE YOU BEEN? Hey dave l. it appears that you have not posted on our various forums in several weeks. OK, time to show us the love

Ok I will write something down here

I had some problems with people here becasue I stated some time ago (1-2 years) that decheng was married and had a son....At the time he married, there was a big party in the wushu guan...No one believed me...maybe your opinion changed a bit now ? Or Am I still a jerk by saying this ?

[onesp1ng]

I forget his username at the moment, but there was someone on the board that teaches there. He used to post but stopped a while ago. Maybe doc or someone remembers?

I did in both China and Taiwan, which basically allowed me to put myself through school and live well for 3 and a half years. BL did is China as well. Not sure what the situation is in Japan, though getting jobs (face to face) is probably pretty easy, even if their teaching standards are higher than other countries in the area.

If you need info on teaching in China or Taiwan, just let me know.

[Maestro]

well, i do need info, i mean..i dont speak any foreign language..ive been to china and the stareing didnt really get to me, i was to hyped about the vast quantitys of bangin food in HK and the hard training to be insecure of a million people stareing at me like im a celeb or something

i really only have a high school diploma..never been to college although my english is good and my brother was an english major in college...

i dunno what do they expect? is it possible to get hired in china(HK would be the illest location to get hired at)?

ive talked to some people, some say u dun need to know the language and standards are low others say just go there and look for a job lolo, id rather have a job set up and i dunno...

id be down to do it though, espcially if i could get back to hong kong that way

[onesp1ng]

Typically schools ask for proof of a BA or higher. However, an alternative to having a degree is to go online and take a TESL course, so you can get certified. It may cost a couple hundred dollars and take one or two months to finish. Many schools accept it, but not all. Of course some people will forge a degree since they're often difficult for Chinese to authenticate. I feel it's disingenuous, but what do I know? If you don;t have either - a degree or certificate - it's still possible to get jobs, you'd just have to do it in person. I believe you'd also be working illegally if you took a job under this pretense, yet that's not to say there aren't a lot of people doing it.. You'd probably have an illegal visa too, simply because it'd be based off of false claims. But the truth is they only deport you for it and people aren't often caught. Ummm, what am I saying... Well, other than that, you don't need to speak the language. In fact, the schools I worked for appreciated new teachers that couldn't speak the language because students were forced to use English, unless the students were really young. Actually I had problems after a while because my students were too used to speaking with me in Chinese. They'd actually beg me to speak with them in Chinese...I did what they wanted...this was bad... Anyhow, it's a great learning experience...in the long run the stares will probably be the least of your worries.

So....I'd say get a certificate and go... If you have a certificate, with a little patience....I don't see why you couldn't get a job in HK, though their standard is probably a bit higher. Let me know and I can give you an idea of the pay you should be getting, quality of living you deserve, etc.

[doc]

So I found the thread aand I read the code which said sweet little to nothing..

That's not clear at all and it does not give any more than a reeally basic outline of concepts to expand on.
From what I can tell, most of what we did get there is designed to do little more than confuse the hell out of anyone reading it enough so they'll feel like they actually got some information.
If you don't want to share then I don't really want to get into it either.
Thx.

That is the monk book. THE monk book. Wuseng were given that years ago.

In it, are verses in older, traditional Mandarin, which took quite a long time to get translated. Not everyone in China understands that old grammar. It was a project, finding someone to translate that.

Sorry if it doesn't meet your exacting standards. I'd love to see you have a conversation with a Hasidic jew about the Torah.

[doc]

WHERE YOU BEEN? Hey dave l. it appears that you have not posted on our various forums in several weeks. OK, time to show us the love

Ok I will write something down here

I had some problems with people here becasue I stated some time ago (1-2 years) that decheng was married and had a son....At the time he married, there was a big party in the wushu guan...No one believed me...maybe your opinion changed a bit now ? Or Am I still a jerk by saying this ?

HI DAVE!

There's only one person here that I presume to ba a "jerk", and I've already responded to her. I don't think that you should consider yourself as having "problems" here.

As for Decheng's "marriage", I've heard this before. About nine years ago, I was informed by email, from some woman in Austria, that he was married. (it's somewhere in the site). At the time, I had asked him about it, and he had explained to me that he had "married" in his passport, which allowed him to travel more freely out of China, to Europe. This was long before he had gotten his multiple entry visa to France.

I really don't know about the veracity of the claim, but, I won't go so far as to outright deny it. After what I've learned about many of these other guys, and after what I've been through with Xingwei, nothing would surprise me.

Feel free to expound upon this.