Shi Yan Zi?

[dadoo]

I thought it was Shi mei wei fe.

[Shaolin Punchbag]

LOL

[doc]

I do know that Yan Zi is married and has a child (at least I knew one of the monks was, didn't know who until doc told me yesterday),

This was something that I was never going to put into print on the web site. For the last year or two, whatever it's been, I've kept this "unwritten". I guess now it's here.

Personally, I think that once a person has "left" the monkhood, such as having a wife or family, they really should not refer to themselves as a "monk" anymore, regardless of how long they've spent in the temple. The Chinese have a term for this, they are called Su Jia Di Tz. I've discussed this in the Shaolin FAQ a long time ago.

Li Peng goes about this situation admirably. He got married, had a child, and still teaches in New Jersey. He goes by his real name, lets people know that he used to be a monk in Shaolin, and doesn't hide the fact that he now lives a non-seminarian life.

I respect that.

[Shaolin Punchbag]

Um... sorry Didn't really realise there was an element of secretiveness about it... although I dont really see why there should be. At STUK it's not really regarded as a secret that *one* of the monks here is married / has a kid, anyway.

I don't really know enough about the monks' vows to know what constitutes breaking them / renouncing them / losing your "monk" status. I guess if Yong Xin / the temple authorities were really bothered about it they'd intervene.

In any case, I can see why Yan Zi would consider it important to keep his monk name and at least "act" like a monk - he wants his school to keep its credibility and his students to respect him (though how you could not respect him once you've seen his skills, I don't know). I know some competitor Shaolin schools (without naming any names...) that would have a field day if they thought they had another excuse to dispute the authenticity of Shaolin.

Personally, it doesn't bother me in the slightest if his credentials aren't necessarily 100% kosher. It's not as if he even lives a totally secular lifestyle - he still seems to go about his monk-y business (see what I did there?!?! ), with or without his vows. The guy can call himself whatever he wants, I sure as hell ain't gonna argue.

[shaolinstylee]

Most of these guys still know a butt load more about buddhism, shaolin, and gung fu than anyone denouncing them for "leaving the monkhood."

[doc]

It's not a matter of denouncing them. It's a matter of how people present themselves.

[Tsingtao]

Married "Monks"

Doc- I agree with you 110%. There's no reason to look down upon them because they left the order. Just because they get married doesn't mean they lose all their knowledge. I give Lipeng as well as Hengxin much respect for not calling themselves "monks" anymore. I believe they did the right thing and it was probably the most buddhist way to handle it. After all one of the 5 percepts is not to speak falsely. I give them a great deal of respect for the path they decided and the way they handled it. As for the others........ It just adds another kink in Shaolins chain.

[doc]

The issue is all a matter of reality and perspective.

I've written about this before, I think, in the Fugue section. Where I write all of the dribbling nonsense that emanates from my mouth.

We know the reality of these guys. But the general public only knows what they percieve. To them, their perception, is their reality. And when they percieve things, that don't jive with what they've been told or expected to expect, then, consternation erupts. Things become an issue.

Reality vs perception. Unfortunately, how people see us, and how we present ourselves, is sometimes more important than who we truly are.

[zachsan]

this thread has more than 1000 views. crazy.


- zach

[shaolintiger]

Some peaople say that shi yan zi is a fake monk,and did not learn from master yong xin.Nobody knows the answer.But how about the other masters in S T U K ?like master shi heng wei,shi heng xuan,shi heng sheng?
are they real shaolin monks?well,shi yan lei is not a monk,he is a disciple.

[shaolintiger]

Some peaople say that shi yan zi is a fake monk,and did not learn from master yong xin.Nobody knows the answer.But how about the other masters in S T U K ?like master shi heng wei,shi heng xuan,shi heng sheng?
are they real shaolin monks?well,shi yan lei is not a monk,he is a disciple.

[doc]

Yan Zi is real, I met him years ago in Shaolin. I truly doubt that he "learned" from Yongxin though, with the plethora of other good masters that were there back then (Yongxin was not as gong fu oriented as the others). The whole concept of Yongxin being someone's master nowadays I think has more of a political meaning, than a truly devotional one.

Be careful about the use of the terms disciple and monk. Two different things, yet very similar, that can apply to the same person.

[Xiaobeeno]

Well, Yan Lei has stated himself that he is a Disciple, but would their perspective (ie the chinese perspective) be different to what our perspective (western) of a disciple is?

I had been told, or read somewhere that it was to do with the vows he had taken. Perhaps I'm wrong, no wait, I probably am wrong, but at least this way I'll know for sure!

[arhat]

Saying you are a disciple doesn't make you not a monk.

Discipleship is one stage of becoming a monk, so all Shaolin monks have taken the Gui Yi Fo, Fa, Sen vows and have a master.

[doc]

You can be a monk and be a disciple too. Shi De Yang is a disciple of Shi Su Xi.