Thoughts on war

[dogchow108]

im not very good with economics....i never really got how that whole thing worked... insight?

[doc]

Well, there are a lot of factors. Far too many for me to go into right now. Far to many for me to really fully understand. But, let's keep it somewhat simple.

But, the impact on tourism to this country (restricted visas, diminished airline travel) has only been part of the decrease in revenues to the US. There have been many, many expenses, which we all have taken part in paying. One of these, is the insurance industry. It has impacted most of us, financially.

Many insurance companies got hit with the Sept 11 attacks. There were many, many payouts for many many losses, of various kinds (disability, life, equipment loss, loss of revenue to business, buidlings, business and homeowner property, health, etc) from many, many different companies. All of these losses had not been anticipated; therefore, many of the previously healthy insurance companies suffered far too many financial losses and had to shut down. Or, restrict their insurance practices to only the most profitable avenues. What this means, is Insurance Company A, who had many policy holders in New York, and, let's say, who also did some malpractice insurance and other insurance in Nevada and California, had to decide to drop the less profitable malpractice industry, because they couldn't support it iwth their other more previously more profitable NY business. The effect trickles down.

So, malpractice insurance providers in California and Nevada dwindle. Fewer are left, fewer are left to handle the risk, so they are forced to hike their prices to remain profitable (ie, remain in business) in Nevada and California. What this has meant, is that malpractice insurance for physicians and hospitals has, in the past year, doubled and tripled.

These extra costs, when possible, are passed down to the patients. In most cases, in this example, the physicians had to eat the losses, with, a further trickle down effect. Their staff got reduced pay or reduced benefits, and the input into the local economy, via usual and typical purchasing, diminishes, thus trickling down to a local economy that once enjoyed the largesse of a previously wealthier upper class.

The outlay of all these insurance companies also resulted in higher premiums for future customers, for all the various different types of insurance that they desire.

Money doesn't just grow in insurance companies. It's very much like the whole concept of paying these idiotic athletes, ridiculous sums of money. Tiger Woods gets god knows how many millions of dollars a year from Nike, among other places. Where do you think that money comes from? Well, Nike has to get the money from somewhere; they raise the prices of their products to help pay for TW's yearly expense. We the people, who buy Nike products, end up supporting TW's salary. And it's ironic; you talk to people, and they just look in awe at some of these athletes and film stars, thinking that it's just wonderful that some guy gets fifty million dollars for five years to hit a ball; and then that same guy complains that he can't afford to go to a baseball stadium anymore. Or, he can't afford to bring his four children to the movies anymore. But yet, they're proud and enthralled by the fact that Arnold gets thirty million dollars a movie.

So, the Sept 11 disaster affected each and every one of us, financially. Not only in a temporarily diminished economy, with resultant loss of jobs, but via various industries, who have had to raise their prices to survive. Insuarance, airline, travel, medical, etc, etc, all have been impacted adversely; all have had increased expenditures, all have had to pass on these price hikes to us. And don't forget the astronomical costs of providing the increased security that is presently necessary. The longer the terrorist threat continues, the more it rears it's ugly head, the further down the financial decline these industries will go. The sooner the threat is wiped out, the faster our economy, and our lives, will return to some sort of normalcy and prosperity.

This is a simplistic way of looking at it. I'm far from being an economist, no doubt people can see a bright side to this war on terror. Of course, there are industries that do well during war time, such as defense production facilities. And, historically, war has been a good economic pump. But, this is slightly different this time, because we've suffered damage here in our homeland, damage which has impacted our insurance companies, and, indirectly, us, adversely.

[Maestro]

my take

my take on economy is simple, it works like this

people work, people buy ****, **** gets old, people buy more ****

since people spend money it gives way to more people having to do more to make things better so people will continue to buy more ****

therefore, our standard of living gets higher and higher

its a perpetual cycle, unfortunately people see things like what doc talked about above as losses, in most cases hes right there are severe losses in the case of medical treatment and insurance which are unfortunately neccesitys if you want to be healthy anyway

but what most people dont realise is there are ways around the things doc mentioned, like training martial arts..we all know training martial arts dilligently will make us healthy, some moreso then others, but really, they make you strong..look at shi yan ming, never been sick since he was a kid? i believe it, its really not hard to believe, a strong body is capable of alot, and a strong will is capable of even more

but economy is perpetual in that it is endless,

the chinese have a saying, when things reach their peak, they decline

and so the wheel goes round

peace

[doc]

we all know training martial arts dilligently will make us healthy

No amount of training will protect you from the unexpected.

[Maestro]

oh

you sure about that? i wouldnt go that far

but i see your point all bull**** aside regardless the more you train the stronger you become therefore making you that much more resistant to whatever you encounter in life, external or internal your advantage over "normal" people is increased tenfold, well dependent upon your training..

[doc]

I'm sure about that.

There are some things that nothing can prepare you for.

Which is what makes life, well, fun.

[RJW]

The Chinese have a curse that says: May you live in interesting times.

Whatever the allied forces presence in the Mid-East brings, whether peace (in whatever form it may take) occurs there, Osama started a war of which he won in the first strike. Argue that if you will but we now live in fear, every holiday, every big event we are now on high alert, everything from boarding a plane to driving across the U.S./Canada boarder is harder than ever before leading to greater frustrations. Our way of life has changed, this wasn't the Pearl Harbor attack of a military target during war time, it was a terror attack of civilians during peace time. The object of terrorism is terror--objective completed.

[dogchow108]

Originally posted by RJW
The Chinese have a curse that says: May you live in interesting times.

Whatever the allied forces presence in the Mid-East brings, whether peace (in whatever form it may take) occurs there, Osama started a war of which he won in the first strike. Argue that if you will but we now live in fear, every holiday, every big event we are now on high alert, everything from boarding a plane to driving across the U.S./Canada boarder is harder than ever before leading to greater frustrations. Our way of life has changed, this wasn't the Pearl Harbor attack of a military target during war time, it was a terror attack of civilians during peace time. The object of terrorism is terror--objective completed.

there's a thing we say in Israel the day after a suicide bombing, usually sounds like this:

"Oh, yes there was an attack, i had already forgotten."

look, man, if thats what it takes to win the war then its not won yet. if heightened security = fear, then i feel sorry for you that you misunderstand it.

[John T]

These two posts make me think of that quote "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" (was that FDR?).
Fear can certainly be crippling. I have friends who have said they will never go to New York City. They think
I'm crazy for going there to train 2 to 3 times a week. I'm reminded of what Frank Herbert had one
of his characters say in the book 'Dune' , "Do not fear, fear is the mind killer, I will face my fear, I will let it pass
through me." Happy Holidays everyone.

[doc]

I don't think that the fear factor in the US plays a major role in our lives. I just don't see it. And being from New York, I think I can assure you that you won't find much of it there.

I think that it is more the expense, and the inconvenience that we deal with, because of the terrorism threats. It has changed our lives in many ways, more so than most people realize.

[Maestro]

pfft

i was never afraid after that ****, just shocked

ill go anywhere i damn well please

[doc]

U.S. government officials said yesterday they believe some of the passengers boarding one of the three Air France flights from Paris to Los Angeles that were canceled this week because of security concerns might have intended to hijack it and crash-land in Las Vegas or another city along its flight path.

Washington Post

Some people believe that Vegas was the possible target of this possible terrorist attack on Christmas. Actually, New Years eve would have been a much "better" time. But the fact that Vegas has moved up on the potential target list, is a bit frightening. Not because we live here, but because of the numbers involved.

New Years brings about a half a million people to Las Vegas. In the past, you could easily pack two to four hundred thousand people on the strip, which is closed to traffic. Sidewalk to sidewalk people. It's just an incredible mass of humanity. Not to mention how many thousands of people are in any one of these large hotels at any given time.

Crashing an airliner onto the strip, or into any of the larger hotels, would bring a disaster that would make the 9/11 WTC pale by comparison. How these people can even think of these things.

And you think that showing these terrorists love and compassion is the right way to deal with them?

[daodejing]

Is there any other way?

[doc]

How about, hunt them down and bring them to justice?

Could you imagine if we just let murderers and rapists in our society, remain on the streets, and just show them love and compassion?

[Maestro]

well

well, actually doc that is what we do, well..besides the keeping them on the streets part..

think about it this way, back in the day(not neccesarily just our culture) people were hanged, shot, dismembered or tortured for such crimes as rape, murder, theft etc etc

now think about how we, as a society(U.S.) generally handle these people..Imprisonment, or option number 2 the mental hospital

you see what i mean? even though there are problems with "the system" on both the giving and recieving end of the law, id say its alot more of a loving and compassionate society then people realise..

i mean, really if you think about it, the U.S. could actually gain something from being more strict, if you start killin off the murderers like texas does in every state..man thatd be a helluva way for people to think twice..dont ya think?

anyway..i think the way we are handling the Iraq, terrorist movement, and afghany situations is just fine, although i do wish the government would tell us more, i guess we cant all have our cake and eat it to..