Ice

[Shaolin_Disciple_8]

Does putting ice have an effect on Qi Flow?

[daodejing]

So heres the deal with ice. In chinese medicine, they think its downright evil. In western medicine, they think its a good thing to put on sprain or strain injuries to reduce inflammation. While the chinese agree that it will reduce inflammation, they beleive that the inflammation is a natural response which is supposed to occur in the healing process, by applying cold which causes the area to constrict, you reduce much needed blood circulation to the affected area and this can cause stagnation of qi and blood which will only increase the time neccessary for recuperation.

They also beleive that prolonged icing of injuries to the joints will cause the joints to become arthritic later on in life.

If you're going to ice an injury, never apply the ice for more than 2-3 minutes at a time, and not more than twice a day.

[Shaolin_Disciple_8]

Well 2-3 minutes is not enough, maybe for a broken thumb but for my back i have to put it 10 to 20 minutes. 20 minutes is a little bit too much. For my case, the goal is to reduce the blood circulation, putting heat is bad for me becasue if i still have inflammation that will grow. Maybe that's stopping blood but it reduces pain. you said that inflammation is a natural response occuring in the healing process, but not necessary good... for arthritic, this is bad, i dont know how to deal with this fact. Well i wish you all to don't have too much injuries in your life.

[daodejing]

Yes, the ice will reduce inflammation and reduce pain, but when your back is inflamed and in pain you need to rest and not aggravate the injury. Ice will only mask the symptoms, it will not help your overall recuperation. I'm not suggesting you put heat on either, although getting someone to lightly massage dit da jow into the area may help depending on the injury.

See a medical proffessional, such as a physical therapist or licensed acupuncturist if you have an injury severe enough that you're icing your back for 20 minutes in a sitting. I wouldn't neccessarily recomend an MD, no offense to any MDs out there, but in my experience they don't do much for back pain besides prescribing pain killers or suggesting surgery.

In a more direct answer to your initial question, application of cold will cause the channels to constrict, reducing the volume of qi and blood circulation to the area and slowing the speed of said circulation. This can cause the blood to coagulate and the qi to become stagnant. When you consider that most traumatic muscle and connective tissue injuries involve serious stagnations of qi and blood, you can appreciate the opinion that icing the injury will not help you heal and may prove detrimental to the injury.

[doc]

Ice application for the first 24 hours to reduce inflammation and swelling. Inflammation and swelling is good, and bad. It brings components to the injured area to fight infection and start healing, but, it also increases the sensation of pain. Swelling is a protective mechanism that can have bad effects.

Heat application after the first 24 hours. Heat allows the increase of blood flow to the area, to help reduce swelling, which causes pain. It also helps promote healing, and it relieves spasm.

Some people use ice longer. Personally, I think heat works better with long term muscle injuries.

[emre]

So Chenzen, what specifically is your back problem? You mentioned something about arthritis?

[Shaolin_Disciple_8]

No no, i'm just afraid of what daodejing said.

My physical therapist following me for 3 months now said this week that my case is not a stress fracture but if i didnt stop my training that was going to happen. I have like an irritation around L4 and L5 vertebras. I'm quite sure that it's due to a too hard training i did. I increased too fast my training level. So i developped pain near last december i think and around end of april i came to see a doctor. I tried exercises of my physical therapist, massotherapy, rest, ice (heat is not for me apparently because my blood circulation will be improved so the inflammation will grow - its my physical therapist who said something like that). So that will do 3 months i'm resting and without training. Sometimes I try to verify if i still have a big pain. I still can't bend my back fast or even high jumping is painful. I'm going to try acupuncuter next week.

[xing_jian108]

How about some icyhot? Cool to numb the pain. And heat to soothe the pain away.

[Shaolin_Disciple_8]

I don't care for the pain! I will accept any treaments. Very painful ones if it's the solution... The problem is not that it's painful but more the fact i can't move properly so no training.

[xing_jian108]

Yeah, icyhot can't fix a broken back... But I have known people who rubbed it on their balls. They said, "It feels like a thousand little fairies blowing on my testicles." Until it gets to the hot part and they run off screaming bloody murder!

(actually they weren't my friends. they were friends of a friend)

A mi tuo Fo
-Xing Jian

[Shaolin_Disciple_8]

HAHAHAHA

I prefer to don't try you know...

[doc]

Icy hot on your balls. Christ.

You guys need to come to Thailand. Or Vegas. Better to get a thousand little FLW's blowing on your balls than rub that crap on them.

More on this back thing later. I'm tired. Left the wonderfully beautiful city of Hong Kong, full of some of the most unfriendly people in the world, and landed back in the paradise of Thailand. I'll get to this.

[xing_jian108]

Not that either of you would care, but just to feel better.. I didn't rub that sh!t on my balls. I prefer women as well. By the way, what is FLW? Fine little women?

[Shaolin_Disciple_8]

So, not my intention to break your fun about little women but i have another question.

When I will go in acupuncture, can I put ice during the weeks of treaments? by reading your posts, i think that it will be better to stop putting ice even if it's painfull but maybe I will do a bad movement and I will have to put ice or something. Is it accepted or not?

[daodejing]

don't ice it, and stop doing "bad movements" with your back. Don't even try to test your back to see if its healing, just go easy. If it hurts when you do fast backbends, for the love of god don't bend your back quickly, MOVE SLOWLY. if a movement causes pain, STOP MOVING THAT WAY.