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The Truth about Shi Yan Ming & Iron X

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  • #46
    Still talking?
    The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

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    • #47
      Wager, anyone?

      LOL Iron Cross, if you get the chance, check out the Catherine Tate Show...
      I think "Do I look bothered?" is a far superior retort than "still talking?".

      Songshanmonk's revisit of this issue seems out of genuine concern. Concern that you could have a serious health issue, and in blaming Yan Ming you may have missed this in some way. I think that's worthy of some acknowledgement, not the skip load of contempt that you've dumped on him. And in doing so you've done it again, managed to get caught up in a defensive reaction that is stopping you from addressing the pressing issue. Songshanmonk also seems to realise that this way of dealing with things is concern-worthy in itself.

      Look if you've got your health checked out in the meanwhile then its no issue. If you haven't, since you don't seem to be respecting the potential seriousness of the underlying issue, I'll mirror you... Does anyone want to enter into a wager on how long till next time we see Iron Cross's defensive reaction again? and / or Iron Cross has a repeat (similar) health incident...?

      Anyone?

      Chicken

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Chicken
        and / or Iron Cross has a repeat (similar) health incident...?

        Anyone?

        Chicken
        Heat related injuries in young people generally have nothing to do with individual susceptibility, except in rare instances.

        Let's not blame the victim.
        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

        (more comments in my User Profile)
        russbo.com


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        • #49
          Should have excluded you on this Doc, unfair advantage and all that.

          I don't know, I mean, I think we humans are creatures of habit, and it takes a tremendous effort to change behaviour even when we want to... therefore I figure, its highly likely that Iron Cross would put himself in a similar position again provoking a similar incident, even if he never sets foot inside Yan Ming's again.

          You don't think so? If so I take it that bodes well for Iron Cross from a health perspective then, which is clearly the desired outcome of all this.

          Chicken

          Comment


          • #50
            I think that as a devoted martial artist, he's more likely to find himself in a situation involving a heat related injury than the average bear; let's just hope that the next time, the people around him have more sense to call for proper medical help.
            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

            (more comments in my User Profile)
            russbo.com


            Comment


            • #51
              Agree, I certainly took the message from Iron Cross's postings, that they, the Shaolin in the west, are unlikely to seek medical assistance in the manner that you would expect a westerner to. So its been useful having Hengxuan accompany me through the UK A&E system in the last month, further registering him with a local General Practitioner on Thursday I think allowed him to realise there really is free health care in the UK. This is all in the hope that he heeds my warning, that if anyone ever gets taken ill or injured whilst he is teaching, he immediately gets someone to call 999 - as there is no downside to doing this.

              It is evident from his reactions whilst observing him experiencing the health care system in the UK, how very different their health care experience and expectations are. Also that as soon as he realised it was a free service, it was running through his head how he could exploit it... which I figure also is pretty normal for someone of his background.

              Chicken

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              • #52
                This is like beating a dead horse now.... I believe i've mentioned several times alredy I DID seek out QUALIFIED medical practitioners... They rana host of tests on me and found I was in incredible physical shape... No abnomalities anywhere... Actually The first time i became over heated training i thought this might be the reason as no one else mentioned any ill effects while training... The doctors all gave me a clean bill of health and later questioned the training practices citing i needed to drink more water and rest more during such intense training sessions... Of course we've beat that horse to death twice now or something. in that we wernt allowed to drink unless he said we could and couldnt stop moving from the time we got in to the time we left...

                In terms of it happening again i dont actually see that happening... Who i am training with now seems to actually know what hes doing.. imagine that.... Last summer even training through this week of 100+ temperatures in NY and was fine... Main reasons being... we are allowed to drink whenever we feel its needed.. there are fans in the windows to provide air circulation.. the emphasis is on relaxing through our movements and not being so tense all the time.... Class is more focuses on performing each technique as opposed to scremaing like lunatics and rushing and running for 2 hours...

                When you combine all these things it really makes for a different training experience... Seeing as I trained at USAST for 4 years i can atest to the culture a bit. Injuries are almost amired.. they signify "training hard" in some sick sense... If your not super sore or injured in some way its almost like your not training hard enough... Ask someone the best way to deal with an inury they say "train harder!" Or train through it...

                I thinkin i mentioned this when i posted about cult like activities.. but when your there all these practices make total sense to you.. YOu think yeah this is how its done in china... this is how the shaolin monks got so damn good. yeah we are training ahrd and are gonna be that good someday just gotta do my front slap kick like a million times and itll be good.... Its only afte you take a step back or something makes you that you say to yourself 'holy crap these people are insane' and realize your training improperly and all that jazz...

                on a side not youd be amazed how fast you can improve when you get correct instruction..

                But anyways the reason i said this is kinda a old topic is because i think all this stuff i just said has been mentioned already in earlier posts..
                The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

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                • #53
                  Great post Iron Cross! Seems you've come along way since this matter went cold.

                  Chicken

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Iron Cross
                    Still talking?
                    Yea, I mean this is a discussion forum right?

                    By all means I am not trying to pick a forum fight with you. Basically my point is this (and it's really not about your mishap at Yan Ming's school). I have read your posts here and KFM (if you are the same Iron Cross). I even read a quote from you in a Tsing Tao weekly magazine article stating that the monks were "BS martial artists". I was just curious how you come to this conclusion and question why you seem to post with such animosity? Was it because of this "incident" at Yan Ming's place or something more? If you do hate modern shaolin the way you do then why even particpate in a Shaolin related forum?

                    I think anyone here who has trained at a "monk" school knows things are not always perfect. Speaking from personal experience, there tends to be some type of drama going on at times. Drama that can lead to bitter break ups and leaving the students somewhere in between trying to make sense out of all of it. I myself had a similar experience but made a decision on which school to stick with and continued training. Even though the whole ordeal was a huge dissappointment in my eyes I still continued to recognize the good in shaolin....not taking an anti shaolin view. Its just been my experience that people that have trained with a monk, who didn't like it, leave and move on. Then there are some that take it to heart and attack everything shaolin. This is just my thoughts on the whole matter.
                    http://americanshaolinkungfu.org/3.html

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                    • #55
                      YOu seem to imply that i go out of my way to attack all things shaolin and am on a quest to burn the temples down and crucify all monks and their disciples... Come off it buddy.. It was you who re-opened this discussion so to speak. I had shelved it many months ago. When I see topics come up realting to the issue i have no problem putting in how i feel about it..

                      Think I covered the why i consider it all bs now in several earlier posts... Coming from a place where everyone calls you brother and family and says they would do anything for you... they hold ceremonies where people get super emotional and cry and hug and express how much love they all share for each other and they will always be there for one another... Then something happens and all the same people that were just calling you friend and brother and said it was a family that would always be there turn on you in half a heart beat and never talk to you again and go out of their way to avoid talking to you...

                      In my book i consider then the entire structure to be bullshit because it is in fact bullshit in the very literal sense of the word... Everything... everything they have been preeching and pushing since its beginning is in fact completely empty and has no merit... In fact I can even point out the same people that would smile and call you brother yet when your not around or your back is turned say horrible things about you and report to the Shifu how disloyal i was acting and what a bad or negative influence i was... again this only seems to exemplify the level of bullshit apparent...

                      Could point out the master who says he is always there for you yet abandons you in your time of need... who considers it a burden to evne be bothered with you problems and asks you to leave and figure them out then come back when youve figured out why your wrong about everything and he is right... actually its more of a beg to come back under whatever circumstances he wants... a friend of mine went through this not long after i left and he was told he had to now pay $200 a month for a period until he was told otherwise to continue training there.... Also rather bullshitty to me....

                      In terms or the marial material you learn there also rather lame... Its bullshit the master doesnt teach you after a certian point... or hell i could say ever... I was joking around wiith a friend of mine not long ago as he trains where i do now too and we realized i taught him 95% of everything he ever learned at USAST the other 5% being from other students... If you go to a school to learn ffrom a great teacher but are taught by another student thats bullshit.... Especially since he advertises he teaches every class and you get to learn from an authentic shaolin monk... a true monk and by his own words a higher levle monk than others lol... Go read the website for USAST it says yan miing teaches every class well actually it says something like most handsome shifu in the world which is so ego ridden its sickening... agian also bullshit...

                      But again you re-opened the discussion so i am just voicing my opinion... I dont really care one way or another about yan ming or his cult.... If i read in the paper tomorrow the school was destroyed by a meteor during an FBI raid i would say "Whatever" and go back to my daily Sudoku.... I didnt even know Sing Tao used my quote in their atricle i found it kinda funny... my Current Shifu and those i train with had a good laugh too... But agian that lasted like 45 seconds and then we went back to doing what we always do... training learning and doing it all without politics, back stabbing, preeching, speeches, or anything else that adds un-needed BULLSHIT to the practice of martial arts....

                      ps.

                      HOO HAH!!!!
                      The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        very interesting what you say, Iron Cross. You know on the surface of it, looking at Yan Ming's website, I'm with you. He's sitting there on a throne in Emperor yellow, presiding over what I can only assume are a bunch of students all sitting on the ground. I think well yes, nobody would look twice if this was an individual of extreme age who could no longer healthily sit on the ground, but, Yan Ming is a wusheng, in his 40's(?), right? What is going on there? To me its suspect, and tallies with what you are saying.

                        We've got something similar going on with one of our friends back here in the UK. He's viralently grandious, limelight-addicted, envious of anyone else being in the limelight, and evidently starting to believe his own hype that he's way superior to the others (which is far from the truth!).

                        These are just observations taken from the Yan Ming website and from my personal experience over here with one monk. But these are by far out-weighed by all my experiences of the rest of them... who aren't believing their own hype and making themselves out to be ascendent buddhas.

                        So I agree with you that some of these guys are suspect, but am very careful here not to extrapolate that this implies that all of the Shaolin are suspect, because that is not what I have observed.

                        Unfortunately these days, if you get black and white on the internet, the stuff sticks around, gets picked up by unscrupulous journalists, gets twisted, and then you get Songshanmonk-types bugging you that you are a "Shaolin-hater". So I've a feeling this maybe revisited a few more times yet.

                        Chicken

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                        • #57
                          Wow chicken everything you just said sounds so familiar to me...

                          I saw the same stuff at yan mings place.. I even thought the same. said to myself who cares about all that stuff because i am still learning and growing as an individual and amrtial artist... Then you reach a point where other students cant help you out any more or other students and new students continually come to you asking for advice and help with training which you do without hesitation only because you want to help if you can.. Now your getting eye balled by the big man for some reason and talked about behind your back.. all this talk of honestly expressing yourself and feeling gets shelved for some lame reasons...

                          So, yeah seen the whole limelight thing too.. He got caught up in all the fame and hype and celebrity nonsense... He actually got super mad at me i didnt go to his book signing and stand behind him in a blue robe while he signed copies of his book at barnes and noble... when honestly its an hour or more drive for me to get there and i had better things to do...

                          n terms of considering it all BS i can say this... On the surface they all say the same things claim to be humble enlightened monks but in reality are all jealous and child like always hating on each other... Ive heard yan ming talk shit about Guolin Yong Xin De Ru and smirk at who ever else I could name at the time... Only person Ive heard him speak well about was De Yang... Ive also heard other "Monks" talk shit about yan ming.. so it goes on an on these guys are suppoed to be the same brothers and family i was with the rest of yan mings disciples... yet behind closed doors they are always hating on each other... to me its hypocritical bullshit to be preeching love and respect in public then be a total jealous hater in private...

                          DOnt get me wrong its not that I hate all things shaolin... Still practice the forms i learned form there sometimes they are great basic forms... still practice yi jin jing from time to time... I just think its all bullshit ... too complicated and not worth my time to deal with... By the time anyone figures any of it out and gets to a point where they can actually start working on their gong fu they will be too old to train anymore lol... In the same time you coulve sarted wushu or some other style , mastered it won a host of tournaments and been recruited by cirque du soleil...

                          On a side note i was talking with an old friend from there who told me he loved where he was training now because the teachers were very good at teaching.. he felt he was improving faster and learning better... but he also said he would go back to USAST... i asked him why he said because Yan ming was still learning how to teach and he was fine with that... so i asked why he would spend $1000 a year to go to a place where the guy was still learning when he could go to a place where the teacher already knew.... he had no answer
                          The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Hey that's cool...those are your opinions from your experiences. It's just too bad your classifying all of Shaolin as BS from one monk at one school. There are many others. I never trained in the NYC shaolin scene but always planned to go visit some of these schools one day when I pass through NYC. The scene is quite different in Houston. I just go to class train and go home. I don't wear robes, have a buddhist name or call anyone brother.

                            Overall, I see there is nothing that's going to change your views. I think you and Chicken barely scratched the surface of Shaolin but there is far more to it than whats put out there. Good Luck!!

                            PS: later brudda
                            http://americanshaolinkungfu.org/3.html

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                            • #59
                              LOL SongshanMonk, I can promise you I've gone a little bit past the surface!

                              Your experience in Houston and 90% of my experience with the Shaolin doesn't comply with what Iron Cross is saying, ...but 10% of my experience with Shaolin does support what Iron Cross is saying.... so I think we should give him that. Hence Yes I agree with him that it is all BS in 10% of all installations of the Shaolin. 90% of manifestations of the Shaolin, I'm with you.

                              Look as I see things I think Iron Cross is doing us all a favour, pointing out that there is an elephant under the carpet, IN SOME INSTANCES. As I have said I can relate to that in the two cases that I described above, HOWEVER I say it again, I do NOT think it applies to all instances of the Shaolin.

                              A lot of people appear to have this type of "black and white" thinking, this habit of taking their personal experience and then extrapolating it. i.e. My experience must = everyone else's experience. In my oppinion that is the only thing going on with Iron Cross. Since its brain-wiring, its unlikely we are going to be able to get him to un-pick it and get him to stop, as that usually takes a lot of therapy. So I agree with you there too SongshanMonk, he probably can't completely change his thinking in the short term, but from what I see he does seem to be moving in the right direction.

                              I get in a terrible mess in Dengfeng, everyone seems to be everyone else's brother... I take it literally sometimes, much to Hengxuan's amusement. They've got different degrees of "brother", brothers, cousins and friends are all brothers, you can only pick it up from the context or because you have background. So I can validate that without picking up the nuances and not knowing the history, I find it very, very confusing. I can also validate Iron Cross's experience with the jealousy and hating... there is a lot of resentment in some of them, usually the more malignantly Narcissistic. I think in some instances, it also comes down to the the way they do business. They don't seem to have models for collaborating and associating, and a lot of back-stabbing does go on. Again... not in all of them, some are trying to collaborate here in the UK, and they aren't bitching behind each other's backs.

                              So this stuff goes on... I advocate anyone that I speak to about this stuff to try out different Shifus... if you visit a couple of different schools you can usually pick this stuff up in a few short visits if you don't get hoodwinked by all the hype, then you can rest assured that you don't get these experiences.

                              Anyway Songshanmonk, its very interesting your experience at the Houston Temple... would you care to share some more with us how your experiences differ from Iron Crosses?

                              Chicken

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                              • #60
                                I think you got me figured wrong chicken and songhsan.... I dont think i ever said i thought everyones experience at any shaolin school was total bullshit. I know some people that still trian there and love it... whatever more power to them if they are happy i am .. good... fine....

                                what I DID say was I thought.. I THOUGHT... it was all bullshit.. and when someone reads what I have written or I am quoted your are reading an opinion from my point of view based on my own personal experiences...

                                But your right in that it would be next to impossible for you or any to convince me otherwise or change my opinion of the entire thing based on what ive gone through and know about it all.... And yeah gotta agree with chicken on this one too in that I too have done more than scratch the surface so to speak.... At one point i was considered competant enough and knowlegable to go represent and teach at yan ming mexico school for a week by myself... Good times...

                                You know it seems like both of your guys have had overly positive experiences training with who ever you train with.. Hey thats great... You dont see me here trying to convince you to stop doing so... I love where i trian now seems like you do too think we are both happy and arguing for no good reason... Just seems like your coming down a little hard on me for my own personal view points... I know many who share my views and many who dont...

                                Remember all I said was i think shaolin in general is bullshit... Ill stick by that... and if you wanna talk about why giving a point counter point arguemnt than great lets get dirty.... But it does no good if you sit there and belittle me by saying i had dysfunctional wiring in my brain or havnt scratched the surface of shaolin yet so clearly dont know what im talking about... Hell maybe your right and in the debate the fog will clear ill become enlightened and realize what a fool i ws and go beggin yan ming to take me back... or maybe the same will happen to either of you and youll think my god what am i doing with my life and run out of your shaolin schools butt naked screaming...

                                Ive found that people tend to avoid such conversations and i mean ones taken with honesty and in an open manner without mud slinging or name calling, because they are usually afraid of what they might learn or see within themselves... or simply because it will confirm something they already know but have been denying or hiding inside... This used to be true for me i can say...

                                But yeah have at it.. Ive laready said my piece...

                                Oh and the whole brother family notion... you misunderstood.. those psychos honestly believe its literally a family and we are all brothers i meant that in a very literal sense....
                                The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

                                Comment

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