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A Shaolin Kungfu Instructor killed himself in Flushing, NY

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  • #31
    This whole event is very sad. I agree with chicken, We should stop judging them and stop trying to make them fit into what we belive a shaolin monk should be, and give them support and friendship that they need. People are social creatures, we need to be connected with others and when that is taken away things like depression and suicide happen. There are always warning signs with suicide, and maybe this whole thing could have been prevented if the people around him payed attention. May he rest in peace.

    Kunoichi

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    • #32
      It’s great to hear all of your comments. I respect your wise comments and detailed thinking that I experience besides of Wushu/Kungfu. It helps me get out of that sorrow for a moment. I feel the community.
      Although I still couldn’t believe he did that. As he promised me 30 minutes ago that he will go with me to do the film. Such a normal reacting, no sadness, no anger, no panic, that voice..I have no idea at all..
      I’ve been in sorrow that I think I could have helped him more. I knew he was in a very complicated and dangerous situation. I knew it will be really bad for him. I knew he won’t be able to defend himself although he has such talented kung fu skills. I knew it was bad, but I didn’t know it was that bad that will push him death. It is too late..

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      • #33
        How very sad... There really seems no to be no end to the negative repercussions of our need for Kung Fu and the ends to which unscrupulous people will go to make money from it.

        A prayer will be said for him.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by To Dai
          There really seems no to be no end to the negative repercussions of our need for Kung Fu and the ends to which unscrupulous people will go to make money from it.
          Superb comment. Truly superb. And very relevent (to certain episodes I've had to deal with in the past).
          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

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          • #35
            Well there's such a demand out there, that people will dedicate their children to you if you teach them the ancient ways of flight.

            It's expected that people will take advantage of this, especially when those same people have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
            Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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            • #36
              Rest Assured Sanxin

              I don't think its fair to suggest that Jimei was not sufficiently supported by the people that were close to him. Sanxin, as well as other friends sound as close to him as any.

              Sanxin, its something that he choose to call you, probably one of the last calls, if not the last call he made, before he died. He was saying goodbye to you, and telling you, in that he would meet with you later, that you were his friend, he left you with no doubt that he was not your friend, you have no reason to doubt that you were there for him. Clearly at the time he spoke to you, you were talking to the part of him that didn't want to alarm you (the compassionate part) but his death instinct had already kicked in.

              He was paronoid (the Guolin can find me wherever I go comment) and had just suffered a series of losses: he could not go with Yan Zhang, his relations with Guolin collapsed, his health was poor, he had injuries, he had no financial support and, probably most importantly, in his eyes, he had lost face. Shame is an incredibly mobilising emotion... the desire to be rid of the shame elicits the death instinct in a lot of people. In this case, with the Chinese extended sense of self, to save his family from the shame elicited both the threat that he would kill his parents (to save them from shame) and eventually he killed extinguished himself.

              He evidently could not indulge in positive thinking: like I have at least one good friend who will support me until I can get the money to go home, and go back to my family who will love me whatever, and continue whatever was my destiny before I became a monk.

              I do not think that jimei was mad per say but he was unbalanced by the series of losses, had lost touch with reality and was clearly morbidly depressed. There is little that anyone can do to prevent someone in this situation from committing suicide if this is what they have decided to do. Save getting them sectioned... but do you think in this instance that would have made the situation better... I think not, in fact I think he would have seen that as a further loss of face.

              Had he been home in China, his parents would have just taken him home, patched him up and put him out in the fields, or occupied in whatever small business they operated... and he would join the thousands of warriors, that re-integrate into society. He decided he didn't want that.

              He had choosen a difficult path, he was not up to it spiritually, you have to respect his choice. We must hope that his spirit comes back stronger.

              Chicken

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Chicken
                I do not think that jimei was mad per say but he was unbalanced by the series of losses, had lost touch with reality and was clearly morbidly depressed. There is little that anyone can do to prevent someone in this situation from committing suicide if this is what they have decided to do.
                Chicken
                I'd be careful with that comment. To some degree, this occurs, but many in this situation, if they find proper support mechanisms or medical care, can be taken care of.
                Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

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                • #38
                  Thank you, Chicken.
                  It was really tough situation for us.
                  His teacher, kungfu brothers, me, have warned him before that his visa was going to be expired. But then he told me “I don’t know about it..”, later he told me and his teacher that “my master (means Shi Guolin) said he will take care of that for me.” His teacher, Shi Yanzhang, was disappointed and angry at him, and I was very upset about him as well. We left him alone in Shaolin Temple since that is his own choice to go with Guolin. We didn’t know what was really going on in the temple. And how bad he was treated. He is the person that never blamed at anyone. Until he got kicked out from the temple, he was already sick (mentally, low blood sugar, and stomach problems..), and back injured . He told his kung fu brothers that Ms Liangmei Huang told him in front of Shi Guolin ” What a shame that you are still in the temple!” I didn’t know what was really happening in that meeting. But I heard one of parents of Kungfu students said she was there when Guolin blamed at him that he didn’t teach the class well.

                  I know that is his own choice to believe in Guolin or whatever. But at that time he was sick mentally. He listened to Guolin “to be a monk” “I am guilty, I have sin..” He thinks he has to be grateful (Chinese: bao en) to Guolin, since Guolin get him to this country. He misunderstood what Buddhism means to him. He didn’t know how dangerous he was..

                  One year ago, he couldn’t get out of that place (or he didn’t want to, as he told me, “Guolin said to him, “if you are still my disciple then don’t leave”), there is no way to help him ( either his legal status or get him out of temple). The only way is probably kidnapping him. Since he would never decide what to do. Or persuade him to other country or something, and get him a nice job, but who can do that.
                  One year later, he is fortunately out of that place, but he was already sick and hurt. I doubt if that’s his fate. When we know he is mentally ill, we shouldn’t trust whatever he acts from outside, because he is not a normal person any more.
                  Last edited by sanxin; 12-06-2006, 11:36 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Sanxin,

                    Yan Zhang's school in Deng Feng collapsed this year. This probably was affecting just about everyone in Jimei's extended social group. This was not a shock for us more a techtonic shift that was affecting everyone in this social circle.

                    I was at the school in Summer 2005, and we were so cha'ned up I cannot tell you. Then come the Autumn Yan Zhang's abandoned wife decided to move the school to Beijing, and took the performance team and only a couple of instructors (Heng generation) with her.

                    Most of Yan Zhang's disciples, all having lived in his patronage for the last 15 or more years, were probably consulting him on how to shore up their lives having been set adrift by the collapse. And this wasn't the half of it, Yan Zhang's extended family (parents, siblings and their families) were all supported by the school, they all lost their livelihood. His wife cleaned out their savings relocating and setting up in Beijing. He must have had serious cashflow problems, having to support his extended family back in China.

                    This is all behind his split from Guolin. Yan Zhang left and was trying to take his disciples and some of the students with him, Guolin was affected by all this too.

                    Hengxuan has reflected on it, it is a completely troubled time (" hen dao mei").

                    I know exactly what you are saying Sanxin also, about not being able to believe what Jimei was saying... I couldn't get the medical professionals to take my suicidal part seriously, it doesn't have the capacity to reach out and my high-functioning part is so convincing. My family intervened and referred me to mental health services, the psychiatrists wouldn't disagnose because they didn't want to affect my high-functioning prospects. If they won't diagnose, they can't medicate and so handed me to the psychologists, who engaged with my suicidal part after quite a delay, and discharged me back to the psychiatrists who still refused to medicate.

                    All this time, you're stuck in limbo, not sleeping, chronically depressed, desperate, avoiding the subway... hanging onto the last few remenants of hope that something / someone is going to trip you out of the episode.

                    I was fortunate. My friend was not so lucky, in the most supportive circumstances with full Medical intervention involved (father and uncle both eminent physicians, she was on medication, and under both a psychiatrist and a psychologist at the time), like Jimei her high functioning part fooled everyone who could have prevented her.

                    Chicken

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                    • #40
                      Sanxin sent me a translated copy of the local Chinese newspaper which is covering this issue.

                      And, I might add, the same newspaper interviewed me this past weekend; apparently this furor has sparked an interest in the "monks" that have come to America.

                      I quote what he sent me, and attach his document. He performed the translation.

                      Flushing Shaolin Temple “Chao Du” Hengshan’s Spirits
                      Guolin said he already sent his religious follower to comfort his relatives


                      <Joe Xia, Singtao Daily> (Sanxin translates)

                      Flushing Shaolin Temple was holding a memorial Buddhist Ceremony to “chao Du” the spirit of Kungfu Instructor, Hengshan who committed suicide on Nove. 24. The abbot of the Temple, Guolin, said, Flushing Shaolin Temple has already sent Hengshan’s God-sister, Liangmei Huang to comfort Hengshan’s parents in Lin Quan, Ang Huei in China. He said, Hengshan’s parents want Yangzhang to “Yiao Zen” (take responsibility), because “Yanzhang is the one that brought Hengshan over to USA”. Guolin insists Hengshan’s death didn’t look like hanging himself, but why he committed suicide, he “didn’t get it either.”

                      Yesterday the memorial Buddhist Ceremony was holding in Shaolin Temple Central Practicing Hall. The big screen of TV was playing documentary of Hengshan’s Kungfu performances in many places. Hengshan’s skillful Kungfu, vivid like a dragon and energetic like a tiger, reminding all the memory and feeling to Hengshan. Many religious followers and members speak up their feelings and memory, It was a very moving moment.

                      Hengshan’s god-mom, Kungfu brothers, students, and friends all feel sorry for his death as young as age of 27. They say Hengshan is a sincere, good heart, and serious instructor. They all feel sorrow for his sudden death. Shaolin Temple invited Buddhist Shifu to chant “Jin Gang Jing”, to “chao du” Hengshan’s spirits.
                      Chief of New York Buddhist Association, Xi Chen, arrived in Flushing Shaolin Temple to comfort. He is also going to hold a religious ceremony Next Monday for Hengshan.

                      Guolin and Shaolin Temple Buddhist Master, Yanju, said to the medias and reporters, nowadays, Flushing Shaolin Temple still haven’t got Hengshan’s parents’s agreement of rights to handle Hengshan’s funeral. But Shaolin Temple has already sent Hengshan’s god-sister, Liangmei Huang to Lin Quan hsien, Fu Yiang, in An Hei Prov. To visit his parents. He heard Hengshan’s parents, uncle, and the chief of village have different opinions about how to handle Hengshan’s funeral. Guolin said, if hengshan’s parents came to New York, Flushing Shaolin Temple will provide the related expenses, and the accommodation.

                      Guolin said, he is in bad mood now. He doesn’t want to argue (”da kuo sui fight”) more on this unfortunate accident. He emphasized, in his own opinion, Hengshan’s death is very questionable, doesn’t look like he hung himself. But why he committed suicide, he still didn’t understand. He said, although he didn’t directly speak to Hengshan’s parents, but through other ways, he realizes that Hengshan’s parents don’t forgive Shi Yanzhang, because he is the one that brought Hengshan over to USA.

                      Shi Yanzhang is Hengshan’s Shifu in Henan Shaolin Wushu School, China. He is also the leader that brought Hengshan and others to USA. After Hengshan arrived in USA, he then became monk and the disciple under the president, Guolin. He then became Kungfu (Wushu) Instructor in Shaolin Temple. During the years he was teaching, his virtue and behaviors were highly admired.

                      About Hengshan’s parents in An Huei “want Yanzhang take responsibility”, Shi Yangzhan said he doesn’t want to respond to “those fake stuffs”, some day when Hengshan’s parents come to USA, “everthing will be exposed without asking” He said, after a week, Hengshan’s parents hopefully can come to USA, then all the questions will be answered and clear(water fade out and stones exposed).



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                      Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Chicken
                        He was paronoid (the Guolin can find me wherever I go comment) Chicken
                        I don't think you know too much about kung fu. Guolin was not paranoid. He was stating fact.

                        Originally posted by Chicken
                        I do not think that jimei was mad Chicken
                        Since when is a person mad for factually stating reality?

                        Why do people that do not understand things speak negatively about others that do understand things? Why aren't people willing to admit that their ignorance of of something prevents them from understanding it?

                        It would be helpful to you to open your mind and find a real kung fu teacher.
                        Last edited by Happeh; 12-12-2006, 04:43 PM.

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                        • #42
                          Guolin insists Hengshan’s death didn’t look like hanging himself, but why he committed suicide, he “didn’t get it either.”
                          I find this repeated commentary by Guolin, that "Hengshan’s death didn’t look like hanging himself," a bit odd. He has no medical or forensic experience, so making a comment such as this, in my opinion, might be more attributed to personal feelings of guilt, for whatever reason. It just doesn't make sense for him to be making a commentary on the causation.
                          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                          "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                          (more comments in my User Profile)
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                          • #43
                            I get the impression these guys are expected by their students to know pretty much everything. I'm sure for those present, Guolin giving a medical opinion as to the cause of death seemed completely natural.

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                            • #44
                              I don't see it that way. For anyone to look to any Shaolin monk for any sort of medical opinion, is in my mind, ludicrous. These guys tend to barely have a grammar school education, if that.

                              I've been around suicides before. And, it is sometimes quite natural for close loved ones to regard this act as a homicide, as, for one, it puts the deceased into a "better light", and for two, it absolves them of any guilt feelings that they may have. Suicides make people question things in their own minds, especially if they were responsible in any way for the decedent.
                              Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                              "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                              (more comments in my User Profile)
                              russbo.com


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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by doc
                                For anyone to look to any Shaolin monk for any sort of medical opinion, is in my mind, ludicrous. These guys tend to barely have a grammar school education, if that.
                                I agree totally. That time I got heat stroke at USAST the fine folks there told me to just trust yan ming in whatever he said because surly he knew what was going on. They also disregarded all the qualified medical advice I got after the fact and just said they didn't believe it to be true. Plain and simple. Of course this is also a guy that doesn't believe heat exhausiton or heat stroke even exist, and that its all in your head.

                                So, I find their true knowledge of medicine or medical advice non-existant.
                                The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

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