Several Things on Shaolin Gongfu...

[mortal]

What do you think guys and gals did baojian train harder than Decheng?

I think your the one being silly.

I wonder how old a guy is who has mastered 70 forms.
If your 50 then it makes sense. lo

I hope your feathers didn't get too ruffled that was not my intent.

Just chatting.

[Sir Didymus]

It's silly to talk about who trained more when you have no idea who I am, where I have trained, how much and so on. You know nothing of me. So you can't say. So don't even try. Just like I won't say you haven't trained as much as someone else. Because I have no idea who you are. Don't you see how that would be silly?

[zachsan]

is this the guy?

http://www.songskungfu.com/

[Sir Didymus]

Aye, that's the one. 9th duan in China and Korea. Now living in Illinois.

[mortal]

It's friday so I am feeling silly anyway.

I know how hard those guys train. I know what kind of lives the have led.

Were you ever beaten by your master because you weren't training hard enough? Students have died training at shaolin.

Before your 6 hour training days did you wake up and run 5 or 10 miles?

If the answer to either of these questions is no then you haven't trained as hard. I'm not saying I train like them either. I couldn't imagine it.

I'm off to have my bar hopping, wing chuning, helping my friend move great weekend.

I hope I could survive it.

Wish me luck.

[Sir Didymus]

Ok, wish you luck...

And yes I have trained like that. Obviously haven't died. But when I questioned a teacher on a technique he hit me with it. And took a wooden staff that was broken at the tip and hit me in the stomach and twisted it. That hurt like hell. So to answer that, yes I have.

And yes, I ran to classes everyday. Got there 2 hours early to train. Did a two hour class, and trained 2 hours after class. Then ran home. I did that in both USA and China. So yes, I have done that as well.

The only difference is I'm not a monk living in a temple. So I'm not famous. I don't really wish to be famous. I just wish to do my martial arts and pass it on to my little world.

[agreenknight]

I train in Shaolin Kempo Karate, and Escrima Kubado. There's alot of Taikwondo people at the tournaments, thing you want to remember is not to let them setup. True, they probably do develop sooner but Kung Fu has a larger base. There are some things in the system I study that are Taikwondo. I think there is some interesting things in there style, about closing the distance. I have heard from different people, that alot of people develop problems.

Personally, I would like to learn some western arts, such as fencing, rune, the gladiator fighting, boxing, wrestling. There some similiaties between these and the Easter arts. I do some boxing exercises.

About baojian knowing as many forms as he does. I think it is possible. For example, the first form, in the I shape, is called I pinion, from what I know, one pinion, there is another called two pinion, which is similiar to it.

Personally, I train as hard as I can. True, my teacher has never hit me with a broken end of stick. But I do know what it's like to get hit, today for instance. I got beat up alot when I was young, I wanted to defend myself but I could not. I spent about four hours mowing lawn today with a push mower, tomorrow maybe more. Sure there are people who probably train harder than I do. I have heard of some competitors training for twelve hours a day. I don't know if I've mastered any forms, or if I will ever. I don't really think it's for me to say whether I have mastered them or not. If someone thinks my forms is good, that is good. If they see something that can be improved upon, well, then that is to my benifit.

If you really wonder if baojian, is on the level, inquire of his skill, ask for references, go train with him. There are some jobs that would do very well for a martial artist. For example, working as a landscaper would get your very familiar with a pitchfork, hoe, etc.

[agreenknight]

But I do know what it's like to get hit, today for instance. I got beat up alot when I was young, I wanted to defend myself but I could not.

Sorry what i meant to say is when I was young I got beat up.

[emre]

Originally posted by baojian
Aye, that's the one. 9th duan in China and Korea. Now living in Illinois.

Never heard of a 9th duan Taiji or Xingyi master before. I guess I just wasn't lucky, none of the masters I learned from had any ranks at all. All they had was a stupid thing called lineage, you know, how they were a disciple of so-and-so, who in turn was a disciple of so-and-so and such. What good is that?

Had they been 9th duan like grandmaster Song, in two separate countries no less, they too wouldn't have needed a lineage.

So did he first get a black belt in taiji this grandmaster before he got his 9th duan? Or should I have said black sash?

[zachsan]

greenknight, what's "rune"? and btw, traditional western fencing is fantastic for learning how to gauge distance, and learning how to feint convincingly.

it's very true that western and eastern martial arts are similar. they even use the same number of limbs. it's uncanny. but seriously, it's fascinating that you say that, because a lot of scholars believe that the roots of indian kalarypayit (indian boxing that would have been introduced to the shaolin temple by bodhidharma) came from the greek martial art of pankration, which was brought to india by alexander the great.

pankration involved hitting bags of sand to toughen the fists, and performing a certain series of moves set to music, much like a form. interesting, no?

[xing_jian108]

Emre.. I live in Illinois. I have met that guy. I wouldn't question him like you are. He's very good. Although somethings about his school I don't agree with, like he only has Korean flags and American flags up. And teaches in Korean language. No credit to Chinese is seems unless he talks about it. But looking at his school. It looks Korean. But his martial arts is no question.

He does Gong Fu as well as that Tai Ji Quan and Xing Yi Quan. If you haven't heard that in China they have a ranking system now, you've missed something. Not everyone has tested for it. But obviously he has. I talked to him before. He was 8th duan for a while until recently he went to test for 9th duan. He has a lineage of course. And he also took these tests that are now in China. There's nothing fake about the ranking system in China. It's a whole government thing. Of course not everyone has done it. They think it's meaningless. But others have done it. And just because they have, doesn't make them less credible. If anything, it makes them more so. Anyway, I have met that guy and I wouldn't question him. I haven't seen him teach, but I have seen him demonstrate certain things. I don't know how his students would be because I don't know how he teaches. But his skill level is no doubt.

A mi tuo Fo
-Xing Jian

[zachsan]

i agree that it certainly doesn't make them less credible, but i don't see how it would make them more so.

perhaps grandmaster song just puts more of an emphasis on his chinese/korean government rankings because he's korean, and they tend to value such things more than the chinese.

baojian - you say that monks are just human, and then you talk about shaolin gongfu like it's the only style worth learning, and clearly superior to every other style, which "must have lost something on the way". well, shaolin gongfu was created by shaolin monks.

someone once said:

If one human can accomplish something, then that shows other humans can accomplish the same. So don't talk about monks like they are above human.

[xing_jian108]

Grandmaster Song is very proud of being Korean. That's what I saw when I met him. He said the USA flag is because we are in USA. The Korean Flag is because he's Korean. But why not Chinese flag? He said because it's too many flags cuz he also has his school flag up. But if you look at his website, even his symbol is part of the Korean Flag. A very proud Korean there. Maybe you are right, he values the ranking system more than Chinese. I say it makes him more credible because he did a test in front of many old long time masters that graded him. He past and made it to 9th duan. I think that says something about his skill. That should make him more credible as a grandmaster. Agree? As far as Bao Jian's credibility, he has lineage with this Grandmaster. I don't know about any rank. But you know who he trained with. A really skillful Grandmaster. So I would guess that makes him credible as Emre says. Lineage is more important. Since I have met this Grandmaster and know he is no question, Bao Jian must have credibility being under him. Right? As far as what Emre says makes one credible.

A mi tuo Fo
-Xing Jian

[zachsan]

i'm sure baojian is a fine martial artist, if that's what you mean by "credible". and i suppose i see what you mean about being reviewed by a panel of your peers. that's never bad. it's just that it's a government thing, and, especially as the martial arts are very much a political thing in the east, i can't be quite sure of what exactly the motivations for these ranking systems were, more so in the case of the chinese government. but i'm also sure that grandmaster song is a fine martial artist himself, as i've heard nothing to the contrary.

[xing_jian108]

I don't know the reason for the ranking system either. The government wanted them to fit in with the other martial arts of Asia? To see who's credible? But not all the Chinese did it. They don't care about that. So I think it failed. Although Koreans such as Song went and did it.

He is really good. He has those knuckles like Pan Qing Fu, you know? That takes training to get that. Anyway, he doesn't teach anymore so I heard. I think he just does accupuncture and his school is taught by other students of his. Though it still says "Song's Kung Fu Academy". The only Song you will ever see there is his son. Who isn't as good as he is, obviously. He's young. Anyway, I think he still teaches private lessons. Which wouldn't be bad. He is really good. I liked him. Very nice guy as well. Though I heard some other stories about him which I won't talk about...

A mi tuo Fo
-Xing Jian