michael jackson

[zachsan]

XJ, it's not your job to decide whether or not doc is buddhist, it's not your job to decide whether or not MJ is guilty, and it's not your job to decide whether the people on this thread thought it through before making jokes about MJ.

you're allowed to have opinions and criticisms, but you need to understand that they're only your opinions. when you announce summarily, like you did, that most of us are ignorant fools and that's a fact and not a criticism, you can't expect people to take you seriously. you can't expect people to look past the "way you said it" and perceive the holy truth that must lie at the heart of it. what you can expect is for people to call you the hypocrite that you are, and laugh at you, which we did.

you want to debate whether or not some pop star is guilty of molesting children, and justify your judgments of us because we don't care to enter into that debate. what only you fail to realize is that this has nothing to do with michael jackson. the simple fact is that you passed judgment on all of us without a single bit of evidence, and according to a belief that most of us don't even share, namely, that it's somehow wrong to joke about something without knowing everything there is to know about it. rather than admit the obvious hypocrisy, you want to suddenly change the topic of the argument to michael jackson.

so, that makes you a hypocrite who's too stubborn to admit his own hypocrisy, even when it's made painfully clear to him. hell, you're too stubborn to even consider the possibility that you're wrong, so there's no reasoning with you. apparently, your brain simply ceases to work when dealing with logic that could turn out to prove you wrong. of course, this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone (see the thread, "effect of directing the qi").

this is why some of us have given up on you and resorted to calling you an idiot and a hypocrite. because you are.

[dogchow108]

Dogchow, whether or not you have explainations to back up your views on MJs trial is something I don't even concern myself with because I was looking to debate with those who have opposite views as mine. What do I have to debate with you on? It doesn't make sense to debate with you. I wasn't looking for those who don't have explainations no matter the side. I was debating with those who say opposite as what I say and hear their explainations if they have any at all. This is how court goes. Prosecution doesn't debate other prosecutioners in the same trial. Defense doesn't debate with other defense members. Their goal is to debate the opposite side and win their case.

Hence the inherent difference between a cheap and totally generic opinion and one that has any strength and integrity.

There's people who support my country. Both of them. Does that mean I agree with them? It matters (at least to me) why people seem to "agree" with me, and this case is exactly the same.

What if i meant that MJ will be found "Innocent" because he is filthy stinking rich and can hire a defense team will get him out of trouble well deserved? Not only that, what if i just blurted out that i think he'll be found "innocent" just for the sake of having an opinion?

Here, look again:

Dogchow, whether or not you have explainations to back up your views on MJs trial is something I don't even concern myself with because I was looking to debate with those who have opposite views as mine

And the funny thing is, you cant even say "debate" here. you flat out insulted people who were cracking jokes. The amount that you have actually debated the MJ trial compared to how much time you have spent trying to explain to us why most all of us are ignorant fools is miniscule.

I'm done.

[master splinter]

HA XJ? if your insults were not personal they wouldnt have the word DOC in front of or after each one now would they?

BUDDHA SAYS....................GUILTY!!!!!!!!

[master splinter]

it seems you have officially made an ass out of yourself, you are a cornered chihuahua. you should just reinvent your name and start over.HAHAHAHA~!

[xing_jian108]

HA XJ? if your insults were not personal they wouldnt have the word DOC in front of or after each one now would they?

I said nothing personal on him meaning I'm not going to hold a grudge and not laugh some jokes he says or anything else. If it was personal, I would have never wanted to talk to him again. But it's not even about that. It's not that HE did something, but the SOMETHING that he did. I'm not a Ret Law or a Dye Doc. I don't care about him that way. I'm not a crazy man who hates Doc now. It's not a personal deal.

Dogchow, besides not wanting to argue with someone who has my same view, whether or not I know his reasons which could actually be different, how should I know what you bet? I had no idea until a few posts back you mentioned you bet he's not-guilty. I wasn't even talking to you in the first place. Like most of these guys. This Rob guy, I don't even know who he is. Onespr1ng just came out from nowhere to say some bullsh!t. These people weren't even in the conversation at the start. Where the hell did they come from?

Plumflower, news that covers the full story and leaves nothing out is not biased. If a defense team shares news that is even terrible against themselves, but still share every detail, this is not biased.

And Plumflower, what do you mean "potentially bring someone into the fold"? This isn't potentially. This was a ceremony to make the person a Buddhist disciple. The person was chosen and agreed upon. There's no potential here. And it's not that the person went through it all with the heart in the right place but then fell away from Buddhism later. He didn't even know what was happening until the end when someone told him he is a Buddhist now. He was like, ok whatever. And disrespectfully blew it off. And now his actions are as though it never actually happened. He just wanted to share a story on his website. He pretty much took advantage of all the monks involved, their temple, and Buddhism itself. That, along with many other reasons, is why no one in China likes him.

Although, I don't have any personal feelings toward him. It's just what he did.

[master splinter]

seriously man, if youdve just kept your big mouth shut, you wouldnt be an ass.

but you didnt, plus you continue to rattle on in the subject after doc has pretty much ignored you anyway. the only reason youve stirred up so much attention is because you resemble ret law, its funny. and if you hope to press your veiws on people about how "you didnt mean this" or "this is what i mean" crap, just forget it. now i could see if you were of any seniority how your observation would actually matter, but i doubt that. actually, nobody really cares what you think of doc, i sure dont. but i love to be entertained, and you have done a fine job of making an ass out of yourself. that is truly, entertaining.

[master splinter]

I said nothing personal on him meaning I'm not going to hold a grudge and not laugh some jokes he says or anything else.

if i were doc, i wouldnt really give a sh*t if you laughed at my jokes or not, or choked to death on a prophylactic, for that matter.

[LeiYunFat]

If I were Doc, I would take a nap. If I were me, I would go take a nap. But I probably won't. I have a tendency to let myself down. Oh well.

[xing_jian108]

I know most of these other guys. I've talked to a few on the messengers as well and gotten to know them.

But Rob, I don't even know who you are. Just shut up...

[blooming tianshi lotus]

HA XJ? if your insults were not personal they wouldnt have the word DOC in front of or after each one now would they?

BUDDHA SAYS....................GUILTY!!!!!!!!

and here's me thinking the guy was dead and promoted and taught not judging, emptyminded live and let practices and such

................ I think he called it ........ peace.


Alot of name calling and judgements around here for ppl who don't aseem to have a whole lot of info..............


If that's your thing though ........... poinient comments btw Plumflower

cheers

Blooming Lotus

[doc]

But on a serious note, do you consider yourself a Buddhist at all?

I'm not a "Buddhist". Nor am I a "Catholic".

I was raised Catholic, but, over the years, I fell into disagreement with some of the changes in the church. I also found that I didn't necessarily agree with all of the teachings as I grew older. I was thrown out of the altar boys, a fact that I'm proud of, after I decided that I no longer wanted to be around a priest of the parish, who was spending "too much time" trying to be "with" the male students of the grammar school. I also didn't like the moves that the Catholic church made, leaving a lot of the traditional stuff behind, for more "modern" and "appealing" events and services that were supposed to bring in more people.And more money....

But, I understand the concepts, and follow them, as best I can. And as I see it, it's the concepts that are important, not the religion. Over the years, I've found religion, and the practice thereof, to be useful, to some degree. I've also found it to be terribly divisive, and responsible for more horror and war than anything else humans have had the opportunity to create. Concepts, on the other hand, tend to bring interested people together. The many, many people that tend to lurk on russbo.com, inhabit this little space in the world because they're interested in the concept of Shaolin, and what it has to offer them. They're not necessarily interested in being Buddhist believers, though, no doubt, they have some sort of desire to follow some of the tenets that religion proscribes. The religion of Buddhism may be associated with the concept of Shaolin, but, ultimately, they are mutually exclusive.

I took vows at the temple, with Decheng, many years ago, which supposedly made me a Buddhist, whatever that seems to mean nowadays. Since then, I've spent a lot of time learning about it. I don't understand all of it, I never will, but, I understand the concepts to some degree, and follow them, as best I can, in my own personal life. I don't try to force this issue, or my beliefs, on anyone; I find that sort of behavior, regardless of the religion one's touting, as disrespectful. I also find people that portray themselves as self-appointed keepers and watchers of the faith, whichever faith they tend to watch over, to be moronic and short-sighted. I avoid them, as they can't be reasoned with. I've discussed this issue before, somewhere in the Fugue section.

I never was the type of guy to follow "rules". And that is what, in some ways, religions can be perceived as. You can follow them as rules, or you can try to understand their concepts, and take what you think are the best ones out of them. And make your own life. This, is what I do. I do what I think is best, based upon what I've learned from these religions, and, based upon what I've learned from my very complicated life, and, the lives of others that I've had the opportunity to observe. I don't do what's written in a book; I've made my own decisions, and I do what I think is best. But, not necessarily what is best for me sometimes. That's the way it turns out. It also does not always turn out well, as I, like many others, make mistakes. It's a learning process. Everything.

Some people find my actions disagreeable, which, I understand. How I present myself on this website is not necessarily how I am in person. What people perceive me to be, and what the reality is, all depends upon the individual making the decision. I can't control how intelligent or perceptive people are, so therefore, I can't control what people think of me. And, I really don't care. I have a sarcastic biting New York sense of humor, which on the outside, seems cold, distant, and disrespectful. But, if you either have the depth or intelligence to look more deeply into what I write, and what I do, you'll see that there is more to my words, than what you might see on the surface. I always suggest to people, to "question". To not read the words, but read into the words. The savvy ones in life, do that with people also.

As you Xing Jian, an individual who continually mocks me yet hides behind a fake forum name, infer, I may not have a lot of qualities that, on the outside, people think are "nice". But, I've been known to have a good heart, something which time and time again, the monks of the temple that know me have expressed, expressed to documentary people, National Geographic teams, and students that visit their schools. My genuine concern for others extends to every stranger that writes to me from the internet, with problems, questions or what have you. It is an activity that keeps me busy on a daily basis, one that you do not have the opportunity to see, and one which has cost me a lot of headache and money over the years. I've spent well over $20,000 on this website over the past seven years or so of it's existence, between various hardware and software costs, and continue to spend over $500 a month to keep it going. We'll ignore the amount of time that I personally spend updating and administering the site, which at times, is almost as demanding as a full time job. If you look carefully, you might even notice that I don't make money with it, in any way. No commercials or advertisements, and a "store" which provides a service that barely covers its costs.

I'm over $80,000 in the hole from starting the school in Las Vegas, money which I'll never see again. But I started a good thing for people there; it's hugely successful in a non-financial sort of way, its students winning awards and sweeping all competitions that they enter. The school has positively changed the lives of many who have started training there. Students, ironically, most of whom, if they were sitting on my lap half-naked in a Las Vegas titty bar, wouldn't recognize me. I've yet to receive a word of thanks from any of them. But, I'm fine with that. I started the school for a reason, and, within the realm of that reason, the school has been a huge success, one which I'm terribly proud of.

I'm getting a few hundred thousand dollars in debt here in Asia, starting a school specifically for westerners, who no doubt find the schools in China, though good teaching vehicles, inadequate for their needs. I don't do this because "I'm a Buddhist"; I do this because I believe in the whole Shaolin concept, a concept which has changed my life, during a time in my life when one disaster after another was hitting me, and destroying me. It's a story that you nor anyone else here know about. I'll leave it at that.

I laugh at all these comments. You persistently attack me, in one way or another, for various and sundry reasons, most of which I still don't understand. And I ignore it. I have no doubt that all will agree, that I'm more than capable of taking your attacks and reputing them in such a way to make you look like a complete fool. But, this is not my way. I am not an aggressive individual, and I walk away from conflict, as I find no reason to get involved with it. You have done more than enough to destroy your reputation here all by yourself; I have to do nothing but sit back and watch. If anyone's behavior has been contrary to how some of the older, real Buddhist monks present themselves, yours has been an embarassment.

It's ironic, the guy from New York, retired, presumed to be "wealthy" doctor, getting on in the years, not needing any of this shit, continues to use up his resources to spread the tradition of real Shaolin, while the true owners of the faith, whom you no doubt regale in the utmost manner, outwardly and embarrassingly use it for their own economic gain. The behavior of certain monks and "monks", your heroes, who also promote their "Buddhism" in their quest for success and riches, have lived their lives in the past exhibiting behavior that is "undesirable" even by our decadent western standards. You have a lot to learn.

I'm a bad Buddhist XingJian, I'll agree with you. You are correct. You have your opinions, and you're entitled to air them, which is why I permit them to remain on the server. I'm probably a bad Catholic too. I look forward to spending the rest of eternity in hell, beating the shit out of all the attorneys I've had the displeasure of spending time with. If I was a Jew, no doubt I'd be a bad one of those too. You see, I don't follow the tomes, books which are all basically just stories, written by unknown scribes, and followed blindly by millions throughout the world. I live life as I see fit, based upon what I've learned from my experiences. I do what I think is right for people, things which have not necessarily been right for me. I've sacrificed so that others can learn. I've lost while others have gained. This is how I am. And I'm proud of it.

Now, if you'll excuse my very humble and un-Buddhist manner, why don't you stop wasting my time with your misguided beliefs and go **** yourself? From one devout "Buddhist" to another.

lol....


EVERYTHING I have left, on GUILTY!

[xing_jian108]

Onespr1ng, Rob, and a couple of these other guys need to go somewhere. You talk to me like you know who I am. I don't mind some of these other people in the conversations with me because they know me here. You guys are just sitting on the sidelines yelling out silly comments. No one knows you. Go somewhere.

Doc, you don't need to explain all the good things you have done in your life. I've been saying I give credit where it's due and I know the things you have done and I give credit to you there. I just wondered if your philosophy is to not follow anything and live life as you see fit, why would you take vows saying you will be devoted to any religion? This religion, even in Chan Buddhism, has guidelines you should follow. But in your philosophy, if you don't want to do that and you feel better doing something else, then it's ok with you. So pretty much you could take Buddhist vows and then still be a Catholic if you feel better doing that. This makes little sense. You take vows saying you will be devoted to a Buddhist path with a certain goal to reach. But if you don't feel like you want to, then you do something different? This is your choice and all. But I wonder why you would take vows to devote yourself to any religion if you already have this philosophy in your head.

And Doc, I didn't come on here to mock you in the first place. I had a point to make. People get on my case and talk sh!t, so my tone changes with them. No one wanted to see my point and just be d!cks about it. So, I'll say whatever want. Lose my reputation here? What reputation? I don't care if any of these guys think badly of my opinions otherwise I wouldn't post here. I could care less what they think about me personally, as long as some points are being understood, as they all have a chance to share their opinions. And, no, I don't hide behind a fake forum name. This is my name. I've told people all about myself. And like you, I have opened a school where I live. Since 2003 I haven't made sh!t from it. I'm not worried about money though I'm nowhere near being rich. I'm more interested in teaching Gong Fu to people who really want to learn it. If money is a problem for them, it's not a problem at my school. Pretty much the same as what you're doing, only I don't have that type of money to spend on making it huge. I rely on students who really want to learn and spread it further. We work together as a family. Because without them I wouldn't be able to keep a building, which I've been living and teaching in just so I don't have to pay more bills at home, in order to hold 4 classes throughout the day to fit everyone's schedule, to get more people, so I don't have to charge them money they can't afford. I do that, not because I'm "Buddhist", but because I enjoy watching people grow and change and become happier people just from practicing what I teach to them.

And because there are too many bullsh!t schools around here. But recently I have success! There was an old Korean dude saying he teaches Shao Lin Gong Fu. But what he was teaching was actually modern Wu Shu forms, minus the running and flipping, and adding in some stances instead to make it look more traditional. He pretty much traditionalized modernized traditional martial arts. But I've pointed him out as a fraud and now he no longer teaches "Shao Lin" style which he has been misleading people with for a long time just cuz he's an old Asian guy. Score!

[master splinter]

1.)Onespr1ng, Rob, You talk to me like you know who I am.

2.)You guys are just sitting on the sidelines yelling out silly comments.

3.)No one knows you. Go somewhere.


4.)I do that, not because I'm "Buddhist", but because I enjoy watching people grow and change and become happier people just from practicing what I teach to them.

5.)And because there are too many bullsh!t schools around here. But recently I have success! There was an old Korean dude saying he teaches Shao Lin Gong Fu. But what he was teaching was actually modern Wu Shu forms, minus the running and flipping, and adding in some stances instead to make it look more traditional. He pretty much traditionalized modernized traditional martial arts. But I've pointed him out as a fraud and now he no longer teaches "Shao Lin" style which he has been misleading people with for a long time just cuz he's an old Asian guy. Score!

1.) we do know who you are, you have obviously revealed yourself as"mr a*sh*le"

2.)but thats what i do best!?

3.)YOU go somewhere!!!

4.)suuuure.... you are a buddhist and you teach kung fu.*trying sooo hard not to laugh*

5.) nobody gives a sh*t about your stupid, trivial, make believe life.

heheheh, just had to say that. bye bye...

[xing_jian108]

Flamestep, or Rob, or whatever.. You're being sillier than I was here. I at least somewhat know the people I'm talking to and they know me the same. But you honestly have no idea what you are even talking about. You've been around about a month now? This is sillier than what I was doing.

Let me ask a serious question though. Why are you even here talking to me? Being an asshole with a point to share makes more sense than being an asshole when you have no idea what you're talking about or who you're talking to.

[zachsan]

is it me, or did XJ just admit to being a silly asshole?

... nah, must have been me.