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Bungle wrote:
I have been half expecting a comment like this. Well, I am a student of Sifu Wong Kiew Kit’s, and also an occasional student at the Shaolin Temple UK. Previously, I also trained with another excellent Daoist qigong master for some years - so I think I am in a position to disagree with this suggestion. I have been training with Sifu Wong for about nine months, and neither he, nor anyone else at the Shaolin Wahnam Institute has ever suggested I stop training at the Temple. On the contrary, Sifu has stated in his own Q&A series, and on this forum, that he has no wish to ‘convert’ anybody. Quite a few of Sifu Wong’s students who I have spoken to go to various classes or have other masters, depending on their interests – indeed, Sifu himself had more than one master.
What Sifu Wong does say is that Shaolin Wahnam Chi Kung will enhance any other practice or activity, and I can attest to this from my own experience at STUK, as well as in my everyday life. My flexibility improved quickly after training with Sifu Wong, and over time I have developed more clarity of mind, which has helped with learning and remembering forms –something I had a problem with in the past, particularly as I only attend class about once a week. These are just two practical examples of the effects of my Shaolin Wahnam Training and are nothing compared to the overall benefits I have received.
I have a lot of respect for the Shifus at the London Temple and enjoy the classes there, but I have to say that once I had trained with Sifu Wong, Shaolin Wahnam Chi Kung immediately became my ‘core’ practice. I practice every day and it really has changed my life immeasurably for the better. Doc predicted in another thread that a poster would probably ‘drift away’ from his other schools after training at the Shaolin Temple UK. Similarly, my own experience is of ‘drifting away’ somewhat from STUK after practising Shaolin Wahnam Chi Kung. In one of his posts, Lipster mentioned feeling some effects of chi flow after about three months training. That is great, and maybe more than most people have a chance to experience in their lifetime. But I can confirm that almost without exception, Sifu Wong’s students experience at least these effects within the first half-hour of a course with him. In other words, Sifu’s students experience the essence of Shaolin Chi Kung or Kung Fu from the very beginning of their training.
Bungle, to address some of your other points, can you explain how exactly you were manipulated? You visited the Wahnam forum and asked seven or eight questions, all of which were answered. You were simply reminded to be polite, respectful and to organise your posts into appropriate threads. If this is manipulation, are you seriously saying that left to your own devices, you would prefer to be rude, disrespectful and chaotic? I hope not!
With regard to Sifu’s fees and supposed ‘commercialism’, I just wonder why those of you who have no intention of training with him concern yourselves with this issue? For myself, once I had read Sifu’s book The Art of Chi Kung, and discovered the amazing Q&A series on his website, the decision to train with him was made. Although it wasn’t easy to find the money for my first course, I never once thought of it as ‘expensive’. Because I had prior experience of high-level qigong, I did expect the course to be excellent, and my expectations were met in full. As such, it represented very good value for money. But my results in the weeks following the course far, far exceeded my expectations, and I simply could not put a value on what I have since gained from my Shaolin Chi Kung practice.
Although it’s been pointed out before I think it may be worth repeating that during a course with Sifu a student will receive deep healing and the transmission of skills as well as learning new techniques. Some students take only the first module of the Chi Kung course (generating energy flow) which costs about £200.00, and yet have enough material to work on for months or even years, often making amazing progress if they practice diligently. Conversely, a student would not succeed in their training without practising consistently, even if they flew round the world taking every course that Sifu teaches. Unfortunately, this principle applied to me in the past; I had a wonderful master, but could not find the commitment within myself to practice regularly. No doubt I am more ‘ready’ now, but developing the determination to practice through adversity or obstacles is just one of the many things I must sincerely thank my Sifu for helping me with.
Because of the different nature of the training offered by the Shaolin monks, it costs just as much to learn from them in the long term. Indeed Shi Yan Ming at the USA Shaolin Temple charges at least $1000 a year per discipline. A student training in gongfu and qigong could pay up to $3000 a year. Yet no-one seems to question the monks’ fees. Please note I am not questioning them either, I happily pay for my classes at the Temple.
As for commercialism, Sifu does not sell anything on his website, which contains a wealth of free information, accessible to anyone who wants to find it. However, Shi Yan Ming’s website has a catalogue which will shortly be selling clothing, books, videos and accessories! He has also appeared in at least one commercial for a multinational corporation. Again, I am not saying any of this is wrong, but double standards are clearly being applied here.
It’s not my intention to stir up controversy with this post, and I certainly don’t want or expect to convince anyone to alter their views. I am only offering some rational discourse for the benefit of the ‘unbiased but interested’ readers we all know are out there. I am a junior student of Sifu’s and not an official representative of the Shaolin Wahnam Institute – this is just my perspective. Although I have quite a bit of experience in qigong, I have a short background in martial arts. I have not had the pleasure of training in kung fu with Sifu, and have limited gongfu experience at the Temple (preparation level). So I too am looking forward to ‘Wooden Dummy’s’ comparison of the two schools. He has come in for quite a bit of flak even for suggesting this approach, but whatever his ‘verdict’ he is one of the few here who have acted according to Shaolin principles in gaining experience before giving an opinion. The rest is just the ‘sound and fury’ which comes from speculation.
Anyway ‘nough ranting, as Maestro would say. Actually, I fully intended this post to be a bit of a rant, but even thinking about my Shaolin Wahnam chi kung training made me smile.
Amitabha,
Fleur
I've been posting on the wahnam website...They're very defensive and manipulative. Almost cult like...Do you reckon they might be a cult? I've heard of martial art cults before. I mean a destructive cult.
What Sifu Wong does say is that Shaolin Wahnam Chi Kung will enhance any other practice or activity, and I can attest to this from my own experience at STUK, as well as in my everyday life. My flexibility improved quickly after training with Sifu Wong, and over time I have developed more clarity of mind, which has helped with learning and remembering forms –something I had a problem with in the past, particularly as I only attend class about once a week. These are just two practical examples of the effects of my Shaolin Wahnam Training and are nothing compared to the overall benefits I have received.
I have a lot of respect for the Shifus at the London Temple and enjoy the classes there, but I have to say that once I had trained with Sifu Wong, Shaolin Wahnam Chi Kung immediately became my ‘core’ practice. I practice every day and it really has changed my life immeasurably for the better. Doc predicted in another thread that a poster would probably ‘drift away’ from his other schools after training at the Shaolin Temple UK. Similarly, my own experience is of ‘drifting away’ somewhat from STUK after practising Shaolin Wahnam Chi Kung. In one of his posts, Lipster mentioned feeling some effects of chi flow after about three months training. That is great, and maybe more than most people have a chance to experience in their lifetime. But I can confirm that almost without exception, Sifu Wong’s students experience at least these effects within the first half-hour of a course with him. In other words, Sifu’s students experience the essence of Shaolin Chi Kung or Kung Fu from the very beginning of their training.
Bungle, to address some of your other points, can you explain how exactly you were manipulated? You visited the Wahnam forum and asked seven or eight questions, all of which were answered. You were simply reminded to be polite, respectful and to organise your posts into appropriate threads. If this is manipulation, are you seriously saying that left to your own devices, you would prefer to be rude, disrespectful and chaotic? I hope not!
With regard to Sifu’s fees and supposed ‘commercialism’, I just wonder why those of you who have no intention of training with him concern yourselves with this issue? For myself, once I had read Sifu’s book The Art of Chi Kung, and discovered the amazing Q&A series on his website, the decision to train with him was made. Although it wasn’t easy to find the money for my first course, I never once thought of it as ‘expensive’. Because I had prior experience of high-level qigong, I did expect the course to be excellent, and my expectations were met in full. As such, it represented very good value for money. But my results in the weeks following the course far, far exceeded my expectations, and I simply could not put a value on what I have since gained from my Shaolin Chi Kung practice.
Although it’s been pointed out before I think it may be worth repeating that during a course with Sifu a student will receive deep healing and the transmission of skills as well as learning new techniques. Some students take only the first module of the Chi Kung course (generating energy flow) which costs about £200.00, and yet have enough material to work on for months or even years, often making amazing progress if they practice diligently. Conversely, a student would not succeed in their training without practising consistently, even if they flew round the world taking every course that Sifu teaches. Unfortunately, this principle applied to me in the past; I had a wonderful master, but could not find the commitment within myself to practice regularly. No doubt I am more ‘ready’ now, but developing the determination to practice through adversity or obstacles is just one of the many things I must sincerely thank my Sifu for helping me with.
Because of the different nature of the training offered by the Shaolin monks, it costs just as much to learn from them in the long term. Indeed Shi Yan Ming at the USA Shaolin Temple charges at least $1000 a year per discipline. A student training in gongfu and qigong could pay up to $3000 a year. Yet no-one seems to question the monks’ fees. Please note I am not questioning them either, I happily pay for my classes at the Temple.
As for commercialism, Sifu does not sell anything on his website, which contains a wealth of free information, accessible to anyone who wants to find it. However, Shi Yan Ming’s website has a catalogue which will shortly be selling clothing, books, videos and accessories! He has also appeared in at least one commercial for a multinational corporation. Again, I am not saying any of this is wrong, but double standards are clearly being applied here.
It’s not my intention to stir up controversy with this post, and I certainly don’t want or expect to convince anyone to alter their views. I am only offering some rational discourse for the benefit of the ‘unbiased but interested’ readers we all know are out there. I am a junior student of Sifu’s and not an official representative of the Shaolin Wahnam Institute – this is just my perspective. Although I have quite a bit of experience in qigong, I have a short background in martial arts. I have not had the pleasure of training in kung fu with Sifu, and have limited gongfu experience at the Temple (preparation level). So I too am looking forward to ‘Wooden Dummy’s’ comparison of the two schools. He has come in for quite a bit of flak even for suggesting this approach, but whatever his ‘verdict’ he is one of the few here who have acted according to Shaolin principles in gaining experience before giving an opinion. The rest is just the ‘sound and fury’ which comes from speculation.
Anyway ‘nough ranting, as Maestro would say. Actually, I fully intended this post to be a bit of a rant, but even thinking about my Shaolin Wahnam chi kung training made me smile.
Amitabha,
Fleur
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