Tong Bei Quan

[dogchow108]

uh...huh.....

[mortal]

Li peng in my opinion has the best kicks I have ever seen. Much better than most of the other monks.
Now if you are comparing him to your average kungfu person. There is no comparison.

His jumps are the best I have ever seen as well.

That is why I find your criticisms of him funny.

The words you use to describe him. Goofy? Give me a break. That is being disrespectful. You could have described it better without sound pompous and condescending. It seems to me you have jeoulosy issues with the monks.

This sanshou record of 30 and 0. Is that documented anywhere or should we all just take your word for it?

Also about his style being modern. Wrong again. It is older and more fluid. It is similar to snake. His is actually more traditional then what they teach at the other monk schools. I know I have trained with them all.

I actually worked out on the sandbags in the video. They way a ton. I almost broke my wrist punching them.

He sticks his toes out after the kick. He does that to give a little extra push. He could throw most people back a couple of feet with that little extra shove.

[zachsan]

now mortal's taking issue with people being condescending and disrespectful?

what has the world come to...

[xing_jian108]

Excuse me for not knowing a better word to use. His body movement is strange.

That sidekick on the bag, it fell down after the kick like his leg got shot. That's really bad technique. If that's the best kick you've ever seen it's because of one of two reasons: 1- you haven't seen any GOOD kickers, 2- you don't know how the kick should look when done correctly. You don't know what to look for. You're just seeing a Shao Lin monk kick and thinking it's awesome.

I know how to kick and the purpose of pushing with the ball of the foot after the heel hits. But he didn't go with his heel on that kick at all. It was toes straight back the whole way. That would just break his toes. If he did do the kick right he should hit with the heel first and that should send the person back more than just a couple feet. It's a back kick! The people should be bouncing back on their bums with a crushed chest.

Anyway, I'll say it once again. This is only from ONE video that I saw. And everything I said about him is true in this video. Maybe he's different at other times. But in this video that's the way it was.

We're seeing two different things anyway. Because you don't know what to look for. You're seeing a kick. I'm seeing the technique in the kick. And it's not very good at all.

[mortal]

"We're seeing two different things anyway. Because you don't know what to look for. You're seeing a kick. I'm seeing the technique in the kick. And it's not very good at all."

More condescending kungfu babble.
Maybe one day when I'm great like you I'll know what to look for. Please.
Who are you to say I don't know what to look for?

I am well known for my kicking. That is my top skill. So don't lecture me on what to look for. lol You have got to be kidding.

If you are referring to the front slap kick the toes ARE supposed to be pointed straight.

Where is your undefeated sanshou record documented? Answer the question.

Who do you know from the temple? I know everyone. Do you think their kicks are good? If lipengs kicks suck what must you think of the rest of us?

Oh enlighten me with your technical undefeated prowess.

I am still in shock over your posts. Lipengs kicks suck. lolo I don't think so.

And don't tell me about how you are just judging the video.

I am curious to know. Who are you? Name. That way I could look up your undefeated sanshou record. Surely someone with a 30/0 record undefeated would have some degree of fame.

[zachsan]

We're seeing two different things anyway. Because you don't know what to look for. You're seeing a kick. I'm seeing the technique in the kick. And it's not very good at all.

I am well known for my kicking. That is my top skill. So don't lecture me on what to look for. lol You have got to be kidding.

have i stumbled onto the set of a bruce lee movie?

[Xiaobeeno]

I'm pretty sure he was referring to the back kick.

[Xiaobeeno]

Hmmm, Zachsan, do you really think we should get involved???

[shaolinstylee]

Woman, woman, stop the cat fight...lol

I'm just teasing, but for what it's worth, I got some popcorn, who's bringing the beer.

[xing_jian108]

Ok... some points:

First, I was talking about the back kick, which I watched in slow motion. He didn't kick back with his heel at all. It was toes straight the whole way. That will indeed get his toes broken if he were to hit anyone with it.

Second, take a look at his sidekick on that bag, in slow motion. There are three parts to a kick. Chamber, kick, rechamber. In this video he brought his leg up, kicked the bag, then dropped his leg like it was shot... bad technique.

Third, I'm not just talking about one video?? This is all I've seen of him. Tell me, what else am I going off of?

Fourth, my name is Xing Jian. Most of my fighting has been in China and Korea in real fights. When I started San Shou tournaments it was at random tournaments in USA. They were not professional fights. So I doubt they are documented anywhere, but if they are, I don't know where to get them. But if you can say I don't know anything because of that, then I can surely say you aren't a good kicker because I don't know you for your kicking, right? Ridiculous.. that's not what makes a good kicker or fighter. Some of the best are probably just training on their own away from the spotlight. Some people like it that way.

Fifth, I can say you don't know what to look for in a kick because you see these kicks on this video with poor technique and you say it's the best you've ever seen. How long have you been teaching? You should be able to see mistakes and bad technique. Even if it is very very small. That's something you learn from teaching. Which I've been doing for some years now.

Again, you're posts are simply from untrained eyes. Not that you haven't been trained in martial arts. But you haven't experienced everything that makes a good teacher. Condescending? No. Then how do I know? It's obvious in the way you post and the way you think everything this guy does is awesome. Everyone makes mistakes. Even Shao Lin monks, yes... You can argue about it all you want. But it's very obvious you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to this. Even if you know how to kick, you don't know how to see even the smallest mistakes. So, it's uselss arguing about it with you.

[mortal]

I've been in plenty of real fights too. Before I ever trained kungfu.

I am not an instructor nor do I want to be.

I didn't analyze the kick in the video because I have seen it in real life a million times. Regardless of the quality of the vid he is great. I am not his student anymore because I didn't feel he conveyed the material well. That doesn't take away from his skill.

As far as my kicks. Ask anyone who knows me. Ask your friends from the temple, who you never named.

As far as your fight record. Sounds pretty hokey to me.

[xing_jian108]

The only kick I was analyzing was in the video. Because I HAVE NEVER SEEN HIM KICK IN REAL LIFE! So, we are comparing two different things. I am only talking about this video. If I saw him kick in real life then we could talk about how he most often kicks, which may be great. But again, this is all I saw. And this is all I'm talking about. It wasn't all that great in the video......

I don't care about how good your kicks are and you shouldn't care about my fight record. I only brought it up because people questioned my experience. I don't need to prove it on here. Who is a "mortal" or a "goninjago"? Just names on a forum. I don't know you. You don't know me. So leave that stuff out of the conversation. The conversation started after looking at a video. It would be much more simple if we all just looked at the video and discussed that. Rather than bringing in each others skill level and experience which neither of us can prove right here and now.

I'm not even talking about ZLP as a fighter or his skill from day to day. I haven't seen him on a good day and a bad day and on a normal day. I've only seen this one video. So, you can't bring in all that other stuff because I haven't seen it. Just this video, I'm talking about.

[dogchow108]

Well, there were a couple of things here...


"I think the pictures of him make him look better than he really is."

"Answer me this, how often does ZLP fight? I say fight because it's much different than sparring. So answer me... how often does ZLP fight??"


...that make it sound like you would question his fighting skill, but to be honest i kind of agree, XingJian that you have not attacked his fighting skills per say. I wouldnt even say that you dont have what to base some criticism of, but aside from a video, you have something more valuable.

while the video "tells" you that his kicks are useless, here you have two of his students trying to explain to you what he is doing with them.

You kind of have to get over the thing where you look at a technique and based on your opinion of it alone draw a conclusion about his kicking skills (which yes you WERE criticizing and making a mockery of) when you have former and current students of his tying to explain it to you. Everyone knows that Mortal can be a belligerant asshole (as can i when i get pissed) but that dosent mean he does not often make very valid points. Perhaps you are offended because it seems we've all jumped you here, but i take it you have a strong character and a will to grow. So i will try to put it nicely for you:

--You misunderstood what you saw in one source- try listening to what 2 other sources say to you. you seem to be disregarding the fact that these two are more valuable than a video made to impress uneducated newbies (which is what i think 99% of videos are for).

--You saw something in a video. even though you saw it, it dosent mean you understood it, but i also think that you should be careful from letting your sanshou record become a wild-card in your deck- that would be a phallacy of logic, even if you have san-shou experience. I persoanlly think that most applications ive learned (in general) arent really do-able in several to tens of minutes long san-shou bouts for several reasons that have nothing to do with a fighters skill. or at least not as much as some kickbo...i mean san-shou practitioners would like you to think.

-- in the case where you see the kick hit something, like the sandbag, and it apears weak- okay, fine, what can you say- soimple physics tells us the bag would move more if there was more power. But, for something like how the toes face, or where he puts his hand- you cant possibly know what he's thinking when he does that, man. i'm surprized about his one more than anything- not only do you not know why hes doing what he's doing, but you have two students of the guy TELLING you what he's doing and you disagree with it because it didnt look like it in a video? Xing, your posts indicate that you would know betetr- both martially and philosophically.


anyway, i hope that put it nicer and clearer. Theres things I agree with you on as well, but that is aside the point here cuz im tying to maybe clear some misunderstanding.

[xing_jian108]

I understand all that. Now let me clear some misunderstanding.

I started bringing up his fight experience and all only after my experience and knowledge was questioned. It's ridiculous either way. But fair game, huh..

I understand the kicks of Shao Lin. I know he may not always kick like this. I know that because two of his students have told me so. But looking at this video, he didn't do that. And that's all I'm talking about. I know what he was supposed to be doing and the purpose of the technique. But this isn't what he did in the video.

In each of my last posts I tried to make it clear that I understand what he is doing with the technique. Just that in the video, he didn't do that. Like the kicking with the heel and then pushing with the ball of the foot. I understand the purpose, and from these guys who know him, I understand he doesn't always do what he did in the video, which was not good technique.

Simple. I pointed out a few techniques were not done very well and that his body movement seemed strange to me. This was just from one video. And I know these guys are saying he is really good besides the video. But I haven't seen it. All I'm going off of is this video.

Again, I have no place to question ZLP's fighting skill because I have never seen him other than this video. One video doesn't say a whole lot about him as a fighter especially because it didn't have him fighting on it. I only make ridiculous questions of his skill when my own skill and experience is questioned. Trying to show how ridiculous it is for either of us to say it.

Anyhoo, IN THIS VIDEO, some things seemed strange and not right to me. I'm sure he's very good besides this video. I just saw a few strange things here. And I understand the techniques and purposes, but I saw he didn't do this technique in the video... anything else?

[mortal]

Dogchow

Good post. I agree with you on many of your past posts as well.

xing_jian108

I think you should be more careful when criticizing a very highly respected shaolin master. If not the best.

I read this thread on a daily basis and watched you give my friend crap over Lipengs skills. When he respectfully tried to explain away your concerns. You dug in deeper.

My name is Anthony. Most of Yan mings disciples know me. I have nothing to hide. I train shaolin and wingchun at two seperate schools. Training kung fu is the center of my world. So when I hear someone tell me I am not experianced with kicking it makes me fighing mad. Mainly because I KNOW NO ONE WOULD SAY THAT TO MY FACE.