A Shaolin Kungfu Instructor killed himself in Flushing, NY

[doc]

I fully understand everything that you are saying, and I've alluded to it all in previous posts. My only point was, standing up in front of a news crew and claiming that there were possible illegal actions surrounding a person's demise, especially when you've been directly involved with that individual, is just pure stupidity, unless you have real, tangible, and definite proof of such allegations. And, taking it one step further, making such unsupported allegations while pointing a finger at another individual, well, that's defamation. Again, pure stupidity.

In my opinion, it wasn't the smartest thing in the world to do. And, also in my opinion, as I've said before, because it wasn't the smartest thing in the world do do, there may have been a "reason" for his doing it.

Being responsible for someone, and having this sort of outcome, can be a horrible experience to deal with. Esepecially, if you've done something that might have been responsible for that person's demise, such as "not taking care of them", or, "abuse" in some way or fashion. Guilt is a difficult thing to deal with.

Who knows. But, if you watch Guolin's actions, in my opinion, he does nothing but dig a deeper hole for him to stand in. He would have been better off not saying a damn thing and just showing a rare tear or two.

[doc]

Also, you know this Doc ~ hanging: if you choke, yes... eyes bulging, tongue out, very disturbing. If the fall breaks your neck clean, no... its very quick, with no obvious signs of choking (which would appear to be the case here... it was quick - Hengshan was not choking for 10 or more minutes), sometimes they even look peaceful.

Chicken

Not sure where this apparently presently popular concept arose.

As far as the previusly mentioned darkened right ear goes, a few things, for general information. A blow to the head that causes death (and a darkened ear from bruising) would be accompanied by other signs, such as cerebral bruising, intracranial bleed, skull fracture, etc. In fact, if death immediately after a blow to the head, there might be less discoloration (bleeding into tissues) than if there was still blood circulation occuring for a while.

Discoloration after death is usually associated with the phenomenon of "livor mortis". Within three hours plus, blood cells start to settle out of the plasma, in the capillary circulation, causing a darkness to occur in the dependent, non-pressurized, areas of the body. You might find this in a hanging victim, if the head is leaning in a certain direction, and blood is restricted from settling to the lower more dependent parts of the body because of the restriction of a noose around the neck. Blood cells may settle in the dependent (lower) aspect of the head. If the head is leaning to the right, the livor mortis will present itself on the right side of the head, more so in the lowest aspects of that part of the body.

Making a claim that the decedent got kicked in the head because one noticed a "bruising", is basically making a claim that a murder took place. Assigning someone's name to that action, without any sort of proof, in my opinion, is defamatory.

Then again, from my own personal experience with these "monks", defamation seems to be an easy thing to do. Understanding the concepts of defamation, and the repercussions of doing such a negative thing, is out of reach of their mentalities. As I've mentioned in a previous post, they live by different rules, and they do things that they think will benefit themselves, without regard to the possible consequences that they will have to deal with in their new society in the US.

More to come on this issue in the future.

[sanxin]

Guolin's Press Conference Part 2

Guolin's Press Conference Part 2

Translation

Note: Yanju has lots of verbal expression which are meaningless, such as “that …that..”, ”..say..”, or “I..I”. It’s like the space to connect the next words or to think. You will also see some fragments of words. .

Reporter: (Time:10:47)
The newspaper said, yesterday, you went to the hospital, running into Yanzhang. At that moment, you had some conflicts. Regarding this, Yanju Fa Shi, since you had some arguments with Yanzhang there, can you describe it for us?

YanjuTime:11:09)
A Mi Tuo Fo! A Mi Tuo Fo! About this..since.. this was for.. yesterday we went to see the body. We just want to see the body..the body….that.. Guolin Fa Shi, we want to send the body to the funeral home.. then that....say…we want to take a look.

At that moment, I, was the first one entering. I saw the body.. the body.. supposed.. generally, the person hanging himself supposed to have the mouth open, the tongue supposed to be out, the eye ball supposed to be staring up. But .. the neck should have a deep trace.. say.. the trace of hanging...according to one hundred years!... My English is not good. I just follow what happened in China. In more than one hundred years, a person hanging himself, .. a person hanging himself.. to die .. will need at least two minutes to die.. But he only has this light trace, right? Then I said I don’t believe that he was hanging himself to death.. say.. committing suicide. I don’t believe he was committing suicide. Later Shi Yanzhang..that..that …say all the responsibilities are ours. He complains, saying how ..how we kicked him out. I , say.. Shi Yanzhang…then… I say, you, Shi Yanzhang, your behaviors, I, as your Kungfu Brother..I know you…I… how do I know…. you can go to Shaolin temple in China, going to ask my Shifu, the abbot of Shaolin Temple. You can ask all the brothers in the Shaolin temple...I..if you want to slander…slander Guolin (cell phone ring)….Then, he said what I said is not the language from a human..he said why you said he was not hanging himself? I said, from my own point, I saw it..it didn’t look like hanging himself..it is different..the mouth supposed to be open. His mouth was closed (pointing at the mouth). There was blood mark here only. I was very close…my head was almost touch there (pointing at his forehead forwards)…

Because Hengshan want to go back for Chinese New Year this year. He want to go home in 20 days…right (turning to the others) (Mrs Huang: because his grand-mom is going to have 80 years old birthday). He want to go home to celebrate the birthday. An hour before he died, he called Ms Chai, his god-mom. There was no sign of committing suicide at all. After one hour, (pause)..calling him again..it was picked by the police, saying he committing suicide. He want to go home. When a person….has the desire to see his families, he certainly won’t commit suicide. He didn’t have a big grievance.. (getting really loud volume)..didn’t have a big injustice. He would not commit suicide.. this is everyone.. everybody can think about it. I don’t need to say it.

(Huang: He told me that they were preparing to welcome him.. they were dealing with the matters….)

Besides, ..say.... Shi Yanzhang said we kicked him out of Shaolin Temple. I, this....can guarantee. Why he said this…this..we kicked him out. He is my Shi Zhi (means his Kungfu brother’s disciple). He is Guolin Fa Shi’s disciple. He wants to go to see his Shifu (indicate Yanzhang). But..say..I, as his Kungfu uncle, couldn’t …(editing cut)..Yanzhang….say....I can’t stop in between, right? During the time…. the time he left, he came back once, but just took his stuffs and left . (pause) Besides, ..say....we kicked him out. I…as Guolin Fa shi just said, Are we that bad? We, Shaolin Temple, have so many disciples, so many people, so many students, parents, and religious supporters. With our true heart, are we that bad?...so, say… this thing, let me announce one more time. We did not kick him out. Because he told his Yanzhang Shifu. He want to see his Yanzhang Shifu. But after he left, he didn’t come back. Because Yanzhang is his Kungfu Shifu. I couldn’t bother. He (pointing) , Guolin Fa Shi can’t say anything, either. Because he went to his own Shifu. It was not like he was in our place, without any contact, without any things, leaving by his own. Then you say …we don’t have the convenience..(editing cut)

On 30th, is performing with Yanzhang in Botanical Garden (turning to Jay). Jay, talk about how you saw that on 30th, Shi Yanzhang with Shi Guolin…no..Shi Hengshan together.

JayTime:10:20)
I..it was in the celebration..they were on the street, handing out the ..(show how they handing out the flyers). I saw him in the parade. I thought he was representing Shaolin Temple to march in the parade. So I just said hi to him, asking how was the show. Then I stood in the crowd, watching their performance. It was that simple. Besides me, other people in the community saw it.

Yanju: (16:43)
Performing with Yanzhang Shifu means he went to his Shifu. But we….say..we can’t stop him. I am not his Shifu. Guolin Fa shi went to China, participating 2nd annual Shaolin international Traditional Festival & Tournament. This.. say..he on 30th, he went to perform. For three years in our Shaolin Temple, nothing happened. For just two month in his own Kungfu Shifu, the incident happened.

Guolin:
Knowing where he was, knowing he was at his Shifu there, ..then will be fine…that… I will feel safe, right? So we didn’t care about it. Two months. Until the day he died, it was totally exactly two months. Because this things….Hengshan is the head instructor in Shaolin Temple. He is very serious. Everyone likes him very much. I didn’t want to lose a head instructor, right?

Reporter:
Guolin Shifu, you and Yanzhang were Kungfu Brothers from the same Kungfu family. Is there any conflicts? So he want to slander you.

Guolin: (18:04)
From our point of views, I think we don’t have any conflicts (pause). Because… If there is any, it will be possibly he was not happy with me. Because I was…. They were also invited by me. Shi Yanzhang was invited by me…in.. 2004? Right?(Turning to the others) ..He..coming here to do stuffs..He likes to do the business. He’s stayed in Shaolin Temple for more than one year. In Feb this year, he moved out officially.

Reporter: (Time: 18:46)
Then during the time Hengshan left, did anyone from Shaolin Temple call him or find him to insure he was with Yanzhang Shifu?

Guolin:
Liangmei Huang did. She called.

Liangmei Huang: (Time:19:00)
I called. Since he left with a bicycle without telling me where he went. I called Yanzhang..Yanzhang said he didn’t know. Then I said, “I thought he said he was goint to your place?” He said “I don’t know”. Then I said, can I go there to find him. He said you won’t find him here. He was not here. then we…going to the tournament… I didn’t know he came to pick up his clothes…then, after we came back, it was said he was with Shi Yanzhang….I was very busy….during that time..was very short….

Reporter;
That means Yanzhang denied that he was there.

Liangmei Huang:
Yeah, right! He denied. If he denied, where I can find him? No clues. We were guessing he was in some student’s house. Later on, we didn’t have any information.

Jamel Brown: (in English)
Hengshan, ….we were very very very close. …….
(not finished)

(edited: doc: added paragraph spacing)

[Chicken]

I completely agree with you Doc. If we put ourselves in Guolin's position... you can imagine that we would be feel in pretty similarly... but a couple of things would be different:

1) we would probably be aware that in our state of bereavement that we should not take part in a press conference... more likely we would issue a statement of bereavement which given the circumstance we would probably be proofed via a lawyer

2) even if this rational behaviour in us failed (and given the circumstance this is plausible), we could rely on allies who would recognise our lack of proprietary, who would intercept and insist that we follow such a course

What gets me about this, is that nobody giving the press conference seems to realise that they should stop digging... the mere fact that it all takes place in Chinese, says everything...

I think this is exactly how they would behave in China (fish out of water stuff again).

Which leads me to the next thought that has to follow this... YanZhang's conspicous absence? Does it imply that he is acting rationally, on the advice of some form of western counsel about all this?

Chicken

[doc]

Yanzhang is smart to stay out of the limelight. And, not say anything, especially when he may feel that he is getting attacked by others.

I had an self promoting "ethical" attorney "friend", who ended up proving to me over the years that he was truly a scumbag, live by a certain mantra. "If you give people enough rope, they will hang themselves".

Sometimes it's wise to let others do the talking....

[sanxin]

Guolin's Press Conference Part 3

Guolin’s Press Conference Part 3
Translation

Sanxin's Notes:
- I skipped Jamel Brown’s speech. He spoke in English. You probably will catch it better than me.
- The time counter behind the name of person speaking help matching the actions.

(Editing Cut)

Liangmei Huang: (Time:22:19)
....all those expenses were paid by our Shaolin Temple. But for example….

Reporter: (Interrupting)
If he had an officially legal status, and he was legally staying in USA, then he could apply for the medical insurance through the government in a legal way. So he could….

Liangmei Huang:
Because we didn’t….we didn’t know either…about this question…. if we could buy insurance. But every time he went to the doctor, it was always paid by Shifu.

Reporter:
If he was holding a H1B visa, then he certainly could buy the medical insurance.

Liangmei Huang: (22:46)
About the medical insurance,...we don’t have enough experiences to know...Besides, we don’t have some professional experts for us…say…help us to deal with it….The time that we’ve been in America is not short but not long either. …..Can the religious people apply for the medical insurance?…or who we should buy the insurance from?…We are not doing the insurance business. We are not very good at….

(Editing Cut)

(Time:23:13)(Arguments:not clear)
Some guy from the audience:
At that time……each month…..living….or not living….. You can talk about these, can’t you?

Some lady with glasses: (23:36)
Excuse me. Let me say something first. Later on, if any reporter wants to speak up, please announce first, ok? So it will be easy to know who is speaking now….I am Shifu’s follower. A Mi Tuo Fo!

Reporter: (23:50)
Then…in Buddhism field, as a non-profit organization…like a Buddhist Temple…We don’t know very well about the Buddhism field. Can you…please tell us, generally, a Buddhist monk live in the Buddhist Temple? Or…?

(24:08)
(Arguments)
Some guy: …(not clear)….should the speech come from this side (pointing at the table), or from that side(pointing at the lady with glasses)?

Liangmei Huang: (24:16)
Ok, ok, we are now answering that question. That is, according to rules of Buddhism, does a Buddhist monk live and eat in the temple? The answer is certainly yes. Buddhist monks live in the temples….. You know everyone in this meeting, we all feel heavy…so…if the words… (not clear) everybody, please forgive….

(editing cut)

Guolin: (24:47)
We were following the way. Right?We followed the rules…that..we were….no matter how much we gave him…that…no matter how much it is on the contract, or how much we negotiated (under or on the table), we all had to do the book-keeping, (pause). Right?

Reporter: (25:05)
Guolin Shifu, I have a question. We can see everybody are still asking the questions around his wages….now, that....Shaolin Temple provided him (Hengshan) food and accommodation. Besides of that, how much did you pay him each month generally? Just a general amount. Can you describe it for us?
(The reporter hand the business card)

Guolin: (25:19)
About the general…. not..not have this…. now we are….

Reporter:
For example, two hundred or three hundred dollars…just a general amount.

Liangmei Huang (interrupting)
Then ….including the tuition of studying we just mentioned, etc….
Guolin: (interrupting)
Can you let me finish?
(The above conversation happening simultaneously)

Guolin: (25:33)
We..this…according to the application standard, we all need to do the bookkeeping, yea? Then after whatever the difference was left…We have to count food and accommodation. Also the doctor’s costs have to be included. Then after those, I will give him money. Hengshan is a person with conscience. He said, “Shifu, you help me to apply the status….spending so much money. You want to give me money. I don’t want it. I don’t need money now.” But even he didn’t want it, I still…still…gave him money. That is….that is…..five or six hundred dollars…more or less. That ….then…if sometimes he didn’t want it, I would send money to his families (his parents in China). Really, speak with the true heart, they didn't…didn't live here without anything…I will feel regretful and repay him. (pause)Then…Hengshan has said to me this…like…because we are planning to enlarge the temple. He said, “Shifu, I want to help you to finish this plan.” (pause) I can swear in
front of the Heaven (26:42). Hengshan has ever told me that more than one time. (pause) This kid’s wish…(long pause)..During those years when Hengshan was here, he always spoke with his true heart. Also..when he made a mistake, I would admonish him…when I admonished him, he will then smile with embarrassment. Then he will listen. (pause) (27:23) During the three years…. you can ask the students how we were getting alone. In terms of teaching, just a few hours a day, in the afternoons and nights. They are from 7 to 8 pm. It was one and half hour before. And then there are intermediate kid’s Kungfu classes in the afternoons. Two hours every day from Tuesday to Friday. On Saturday and Sunday teachings hours are a bit longer. It was about three to four hours.

Reporter: (27:56)
Hengshan was there….did he often….

Guolin: (28:00)
His wages…in the Buddhist services or something…I always followed the same amount of money that I paid other Buddhist monks….whatever I paid other monks, I also paid him the same amount. (pause). That…that…the monk in the temple…in every .. every temple…. Do the Buddhist monks have ever wages? (pause) Nobody has the wages. (pause) Right?

Reporter: (28:25)
So, after Hengshan came to America, did he…..

Guolin: (28:28)
Before he came here, he was not a monk. He was a student at Yanzhang’s School.

Reporter: (28:33)
He became a monk after he came here?....

Guolin: (28:34)
(interrupting)He asked for it. (pause) During those years, he has ever thought about returning to laity. I said ok. “If you want to return to laity, fine.” He is free. He didn’t receive the monks’ rules(Wu Jie) yet. He was just a novice. Right?

Yanju: (28:51)
……want to confess the sins…facing Buddha….repenting…making a mistake…will correct next time…want to confess….

Reporter:
Does that mean whatever Shifu asks his disciple to do, then the disciple has to do it?

Yanju:
No, not whatever Shifu asks him to do, he will have to do…not like that. But..that is… Shifu teaches him five virtues, teaching him the way of human. Something are by yourself….Shifu won’t ask you to do whatever. When it’s time to practice, then we practice. Time to do the morning service, then we do it. Time to do the evening service, then I do the evening service together. But you have to follow the rules and systems of the temple. We were doing together….with Hengshan…we were doing the evening service…sometimes he laughed. I
said “no, you can’t do that.” Because doing the Buddhist service is a very serious thing…must in the mind…this is the real Buddhist, a good one. But sometimes he laughed…. I don’t know what happened. Sometimes he laughed by himself when he played the Buddhist instrument (wooden fish). I said no, you can’t do that. That is…for some mistakes. When the disciples and students make mistakes, we have to correct them. But it’s not whatever Shifu ask you to do, you will have to do it.

Reporter: (30:20)
Did you get paid when you were in Shaolin Temple? How did they deal with it?

Yanju: (30:22)
In the Shaolin Temple, there are Wu Monks (Kungfu Monks) and Wen Monks (Civil Monks). Shaolin Kungfu Monks is….Wushu. Because in the Shaoin temple..(pause)..Jiang Zhe Min has visited Shaolin Temple. Shaolin Temple civil and Kungfu cultures are national treasures. Chinese Wushu is grand and deep. Shaoin Temple representing Chinese Wushu, is Chinese national treasure. We…Guolin Shifu, was sent to New York is just to promote and enlarge our Shaolin Wushu, promoting us, Chinese, yellow skin people (very natural way), promoting our Chinese pride, not getting…from outside…

Reporter: (Interrupting)(31:12)
That I knew..I mean, is Shaolin Temple same as other companies, same system in term of payments…

Yanju: (31:22)
We have wages.

Guolin (31:23)(low volume interrupting): ..having “money for living expenses”

Reporter:
You got money for living expenses.

Yanju:
Shaolin Temple distribute the food tickets……usually….but something like…say…in the holidays, the temple will distribute us money for expenses: to buy the tooth paste, tooth brush, clothes, shoes, etc. Like that. But…more specifically…..

(Editing Cut)

[doc]

There are laws about minimum wage in this country. There are also laws concerning wages for H1 visa recipients. Contract requirements. Other things.

As I've said before, this is not over for Guolin...

[Chicken]

trouble at mill

Yesterday, we came across a very nice picture circa 2002 (I think) of Hengshan doing a two finger handstand... can anyone help me resize and upload it?

In a perfect world, this wouldn't have happened, and there would be more trouble on the horizon for Guolin in relation to this matter, but even when the negligence might have contributed to the suicide, its tenuous to prove it, and I suspect that anyway the immigration & justice departments have bigger fish to fry.

Someone could send this footage to them with a translation? (But still I doubt there will be any action.)

Besides, as you are saying Doc, so long as they continue to act like this, there's more trouble on the horizon period!

Chicken

[amrta]

bully press conference

what a shame of what Guo Lin's said!! He doesn't know what he was saying in the press conference!!

None of what he said made any logical thinking at all. Whey...how smart those reporters. They all know the truth laid inside the Shaolin Temple. But... just haven't find out the enough evidence yet...

Seriously doc, this is a bully press conference that he had. He drowned himself into the situation of his time being.

[doc]

Well, there may be issues to discuss. Sometimes, you attract attention to yourself when you say "too much", or make comments to try to deflect the veritable limelight from yourself. Let's talk about some things, for educational purposes only.

Issue 1: Immigration / IRS

When you apply for a non-immigrant visa for someone, and obtain it, there tends to be a requirement for a contractual relationship, and in that contractual relationship, some sort of salary package. Now, this salary package can include housing and other expenses, on top of monetary reward. However, a few things are relevant with this relationship:

The housing, as per local city codes, needs to be housing. Not a commercial establishment. Having your H1 recipient live in your school (regardless of whether you call it a temple or what have you, city code for these places is well defined) is against health and other city code laws.Having your visa recipients sleep and live in your cmmercial coded establishment is going to raise quite a few eyebrows on the city and state level.

The housing package, should be relevant. To give an example, when we brought Xingwei over, we gave him a salary package. That package included housing, among other things. We took a look at the average rental prices for one and two bedroom apartments in the local area near our school / my house, and came up with a "housing allowance" that was near the lower end of the scale, even though he was living in a 6000 square foot house (which, by the way, he preferred to live in, as opposed to the condominium that we had planned to purchase for his use). That housing allowance was part of his salary; he, and we, paid taxes on that. Now, despite our best interests to explain that to him and his followers, he eventually used this "I'm not being paid enough" stuff to "justify" his leaving to his minions. The reason why you include this, other than this being the legal and proper way of doing it, is that you need to show that your non-immigrant visa holder is able to pay for his own housing (support himself), and, that he pays taxes on his income. Don't do this, and it's difficult to get the beloved Green Card. So, a question that might be raised with respect to this current issue, is, how much money was allocated for housing? And, how much was paid in taxes? Were any taxes paid at all? You can only hide behind the "we're a religious institution" crap for so long. Once the IRS gets involved, things can get interesting.

Once you bring a visa recipient in on an H1 visa, and you have them employed under a salary package, that individual needs to have a social security number. We got one for Decheng, even though he is rarely in the counrty, because we had him on salary. He paid taxes, even though he was only here, on average, a month out of each year. We also had a social security number for Xingwei. And yes, I won't name any individuals, but, I've been told by quite a few reliable sources that one individual, who claimed to be a "monk", has questioned how he could get his social security number changed. Talk about trying to hide.

If you talk to IRS agents, you'll find that the concept of paying taxes is not a prevalent one in the Chinese community. Just go to any Chinese restaurant in Chinatown, and chances are, you'll find a "cash only" business. Keeping good financial records is also not common, so tracking down actual numbers is difficult with these businesses. But when the IRS gets involved and starts tearing things apart, they will find what they're looking for. And they will prosecute, and will generally prosecute, successfully.

Issue 2: Employer responsibility

"The employer is responsible for return transportation costs for an employee terminated prior to the end of the approved period of employment." (US Govt regulations) The employer who obtained the non-immigrants H1 visa is responsible for getting his visa recipient back home, when the employment contractual period, or agreement, ends.

Issue 3: Employee responsibility

"H1 visa holder can not work as self-employed or freelancer and do contract type of work in free time." (US govt regulations). The H1 visa recipient has a responsibility and obligation to work for the employer that obtained his visa, an no others, unless those other employers apply for another H1 visa for that individual. Vis a vis, the employer is responsble to the employee.

No doubt, more to come.

[doc]

An old Chinese adage comes to mind.

Kill your enemies with another's sword...

Well, having experienced this concept, through my dealings with Chinese in the past, I'm starting to wonder if the limelight should not be on Guolin as much as everyone seems to be focusing.

Is he just an innocent, albeit possibly not the wisest, bystander in all of this? Is there another, more "in the background", individual who deserves more attention?

[Chicken]

Queer Fish

Back on the blame game then, BtL, Doc?

I almost posted this yesterday but seem to be getting good at subconsciously deleting my posts before I post them.

1. First of all they are all fish out of water in America.
2. There is a shed load of "life as usual" stuff still going on back home in China, and the ripples of this are felt as far a way as America. i.e. in this case Yan Zhang became estranged from his wife. (The possible reasons for that are highlighted somewhere else on the board - but now is not the time to raise that discussion)
3. She started drinking and smoking and eventually packed up his Dengfeng school and moved back to her family in Beijing.
4. Yan Zhang's extended family lost their livelyhood (all were living off the proceeds of the school).
5. Yan Zhang inevitably had a serious cashflow problem, his complete extended family was in mortal jeopardy and so he couldn't live the "happy poor monk" life with Guolin anymore, instead need required him to go out and find some more commercially beneficial activities / income streams.
6. Most of the teachers at Guolin's were Yan Zhang disciples. Inevitably, when he left he was counting on all his disciples coming with him. And all did, bar Hengshan who decided to shaft his guanxi network and shifu of 8 years+ and stay with Guolin.

The last thing Guolin needed was for Yan Zhang to walk off left field with most of his coaches and a lot of his students... that is the source of the dispute between Guolin and Yan Zhang. Did Yan Zhang do this malevolently? No, however good his guanxi is with Guolin and YongXin, if his family back in China is destitute he is going to do what the rest of us would and do whatever he has to do to ensure their survival. So yes Guolin and Yan Zhang are both victims of the actions of Yan Zhang's wife which arose out of Yan Zhang going AWOL in the US leaving her estranged in Dengfeng. NB. its perfectly legal in China and the US to do this.

Guanxi... guanxi is not just networking and making friends... in China "you" does not mean you as an individual it means you and the family & social network within which you live. In China without a family and social network around you, you cannot exist. So when Hengshan made the call to shaft YanZhang and stay with Guolin, he not only bit the hand that had taken him in destitute, fed him, given him a trade and brought him to the US, but he divorced himself from everyone that was in his social guanxi network, i.e. the Yan Zhang guanxi network. If he could not be counted on by Yan Zhang who had done more for him and his family than anyone in his life, training him up to be a shaolin warrior to the point that he actually got him out to the US, all for a couple of pigs and an odd job here or there... how can anyone else who had observed that, who had made much less a contribution to Hengshan's life, count on him?

Everyone in this situation knew this, the guy could not be counted on. In China... life is hard... you need people who are gonna help you, not shaft you the first time your chips are down!

So what had Guolin and the Guolin camp actually inherited? Answer: A turncoat who couldn't be counted on.

Bearing in mind that all are thinking and acting in a relatively basic chinese context, that decision to shaft Yan Zhang and go with Guolin was SUICIDE.

The only thing that can be said in Hengshan's defence is that Guolin should not have given him the option to separate from Yan Zhang, his real shifu (as that isn't Shaolin). This said Hengshan didn't have to follow Guolin, all he had to do was to stick with the pack... and there in you can see why Yan Zhang et al are so mad with Hengshan for splitting, and at Guolin for encouraging him... if Guolin hadn't interfered, Hengshan would still be with Yan Zhang. Anger emotionally is the reuniter... Yan Zhang et al were doing everything they could to get Hengshan back with them... because they knew how pracarious his situation with Guolin was.

Guolin then wound up with a physically, spiritually and mentally broken Hengshan... which was the last thing he needed in this situation and so at the 11th hour tossed him back towards Yan Zhang... but Hengshan had already burnt his psychological bridges, decided not to eat humble pie, decided he had had enough suffering, and made a swift exit.

Does this make Guolin responsible, or Yan Zhang responsible, or Yan Zhang's wife responsible?
No... at the end of the day the only person responsible for Hengshan's actions was Hengshan.
He was a queer fish.

Chicken

[doc]

Back on the blame game then, BtL, Doc?
Chicken

I'm not blaming anyone. Never did.

All I suggested is that the heat has been apparently significant for Guolin, who, might just be an unfortunate bystander to some degree, in this whole episode. And, I raised a couple of points which were possibly relevent.

And, one day, you'll learn to ignore BL. That's why she's in HELL.

[arhat]

The only thing that can be said in Hengshan's defence is that Guolin should not have given him the option to separate from Yan Zhang, his real shifu (as that isn't Shaolin).

All things considered, that concept probably has little resonance with Guolin.

[Chicken]

Arhat, yes, I don't think many get the finer points of why you don't poach students from other shifus. This said, if a student comes accross of their own accord, when their previous shifu's chips are up... then that's fair game / tao.

But Guolin does seem to learn from his past mistakes, so I do think he will meditate on this point and it will be the last time he disregards a shifu - disciple relationship.

Doc I'm with you... still haven't got the hang of BtL.
And I don't think Guolin is at all responsible for what has gone on either.

The suicide is fall-out from the shock waves of Yan Zhang's marital problems and the resulting school closure in Dengfeng. Many people have marital problems, and many companies collapse under the strain, indeed many companies collapse period... shit happens! Most don't get bogged down in the fall out ... Heng Shan did.

It is tragic.

Chicken