interesting fallout from Iraq invasion

[zachsan]

"you're not a doctor, you're a wanker"
- stereolab

very good band.

[doc]

Hmmm....Berg's rights? Let's see, he wasn't in the military, he's not Iraqi, both US and Iraqi officials advised him to leave. Now, I was just sickened as anyone else at this news. But this is war, a war that is turning dirtier every day. All these war hawks that were calling for some rag-headed Iraqi blood to be spilled over a year ago are now getting their panties in a bunch over some hapless kid who was wandering around Iraq. 'Oh the inhumanity!!!'

Hapless? Here comes Mr Bunker's heavy handed response.

I really feel bad for this kid, it is a horribly tragic and terrible unnecessary thing. But, the more I think of it, stupid comes mind.

Berg reportedly told Infante that: "They arrested me because I had a Jewish last name and an Israeli stamp in my passport" and that Iraqi police had handed him over to U.S. military forces "because they thought he was a spy." MSNBC

I've been told that Israeli visa stamps are eraseable. And, you have the option of not getting the Israeli entry stamp placed in your passport. There is a reason for this....

Make sense? This guy just wasn't "savvy".

[meattosser]

okay, that was not cool...

lester1/2jr: "...shock and awe didn't kill 9,000 people..."

You gave absolutely NO evidence proving your point. All you said was stuff about the enemy sneaking in between the crowd; Yes, I know about that, genius, but the "shock and awe" campaign comprised mainly of bombing FIRST, BEFORE the infantry was sent in to do the street fighting. But it seemed you were starting to blabber nonsense in a random manner.

"...When The US occupied Germany after we destoryed the nazi regime guess how many acts of terrorism there were against us? zero..."

Yes, but if you research enough, you'll find that many in the Nazi regime were much more lenient (did I spell that correctly?) and willing to cooperate after the war's end. Aside from some former nazis that fled to South America, many were actually granted safe haven in the United States, some even ended up having pretty powerful jobs. Don't even try to compare the situation in Germany with the situation in the middle east, it's simply a different situation. However, I do like a debate, and I respect your opinion nonetheless.

"...mcarthyism? that's utterly insane. What island do you live on that you think a terrorist is not a threat to you?"

I live in United States genius. And I'm guessing you have no idea what it's like to be sent to prison without a trial. It pretty much feels like **** to be accused and punished for something you didn't do. Reports of farmers and civilians in Afghanistan being marked as "terrorists" had been going on for a while already, but lately they'd been brought to light again, since the strange "homosexual practices/tortures in prison" scandals; our country is supposed to ****in' represent democracy. But when **** like that happens, whatever little credibility we have left is pretty much gone down the crapper. I'm not saying every detained person is innocent, but honestly man, **** simply has gotten out of hand, and there has to be a stop to it.

"...man, you are not a martial artist..."

Okay, now when someone makes a response like this, it boils my blood a little bit.
Who the **** are you to say I'm not a martial artist? To put it nicely, that was a pretty ignorant remark; if you're not going to say anything valid or intelligent, then perhaps you shouldn't say anything at all my friend.
I'm sure you're a smarter person than that, but when you say things like that, makes me wonder....

Anyway, stay strong people, peace out...

[Fa Hui]

"man, you are not a martial artist."

"I kicked him out of MA"

Is that possible, can another man just randomly kick a man out of the martial arts. Is there some sort of secret society I forgot to sign up for 10 yrs ago when I began training?

Honestly, what makes some a real martial artist, besides the fact of practicing the martial arts and being able to use it a combative situation? I was always taught that the highest level was that of No-fighting. I could be wrong though, wouldn't be the first that I had some sort of skewed perception of things.

peace

[lester1/2jr]

I can and will kick that guy out of the martial arts. Yeah dude, the postwar in Europe went smoothly because the united states gave a few highly dangerous spy jobs to a couple nazi officials. And the adu graib humiliations of prisoners were worse than I guess anything because the us should ****ing represent!! the iraqi ingrates go on about "security" than they want those same people treated like royalty in understaffed jails. There arguement seems to be that the US isn't doing a good enough job of security, so we should give the goverment over to THE PEOPLE WHO ARE CAUSING THE CHAOS. That's like me giving my house to termites.

[meattosser]

Lester, your chances of "kicking me out of martial arts" are about as good as a guy with no legs playing soccer. When you run around saying **** like that, it just makes you look like an arrogant prick, man. Besides, this discussion has nothing to do with gongfu anyway, so why do you keep bringing it up? You ain't my sifu, or instructor, or any type of gongfu authority, so it doesn't make any sense for you to say those things.

As for the Iraq thing, well, hell yes, currently there's a whole lot of **** going down. It's a complex issue, no doubt about it. But things have been going from bad to worse, and the Iraqis have a right to complain. We were the ones who invaded after all. They never invaded the USA. Our government's extremely selfish foreign policy has constantly made things worse for the common people in the US, and people in middle east. But, we can't go to past and fix this, we can only look to the future; so we should start to think of new positive methods of how to resolve this great conflict, as we have a long way to go.

Peace y'all, stay strong...

[zachsan]

fa hui, you're not part of the society, man? i mean.... what society....

[meattosser]

Aha! So Zachsan is part of that evil secret society! Hahaha...

[RJW]

SYMBOLISM

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=18667

Bin Laden's Stature Rises with the World's Tallest Building
By Mamoun Fandy, Pacific News Service
May 11, 2004
Perhaps the Bin Ladens should get out of the skyscraper business.

The Bin Laden Construction group recently won a bid to build the tallest skyscraper in the world in Dubai, United Arab Emirates (UAE). The announcement made front-page news in most major Arab media outlets, including the Arab News, the Gulf News and the pan-Arab daily Asharq al-Awsat.

According to Asharq al-Awsat, the building will be over 2,300 feet high, with 160 floors in addition to a parking garage and the ground floor. The Bin Laden skyscraper will outstrip by more than 820 feet the current contender, Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, and will house a hotel wing, apartments, offices, entertainment centers and restaurants, according to the report.

The project is intended to show the world the extent of the Bin Laden group's financial and engineering abilities: They will handle all aspects of the building, from financing to construction, on their own. Any large company wants to be seen flexing its industrial and commercial muscle. But the powerful images of 9/11 may give the project its own symbolic meaning.

The computer-generated picture of the proposed Bin Laden tower, printed in Asharq al-Awsat, only adds to the disquiet one feels in reading about the immensity of the building. The tall, sleek structure is shown against an evening sky. From two smaller buildings flanking the tower, two white beams shoot to the sky. For me, these are vivid reminders of the beams of light that served as a temporary memorial near Ground Zero, starting on March 11, 2002, the six-month anniversary of the World Trade Center attack. Could one evoke the destruction of the Twin Towers by the "other" bin Laden more directly? Are we to understand this new project in Dubai as a kind of replacement for the buildings Osama bin Laden destroyed?

What other messages could be gleaned from this drawing? Indeed, it suggests that Dubai could surpass New York's centrality as a business hub. The emergence of moguls like the Bin Laden group and the prominence of the Gulf Cooperation Council economies are written into this project. The tower can be read as a story of how and where the Bin Laden construction group will remake the world.

The Bin Laden company has always tried to keep its distance from Osama, the Bin Laden of destruction. The company was founded by Mohammad bin Laden in the Saudi city of Jeddah in the 1950s. Thirteen of Mohammad bin Laden's sons sit on the firm's board. The family disowned Osama after he lost his Saudi citizenship in 1994 for suspected terrorist activities.

Will the buildings serve as a reminder of the role that Dubai banks played in funneling money to Al Qaeda?

Islamic symbolism has always been important to the Bin Laden group. They were involved in many Islamic projects. Many years ago, they were entrusted with the renovation of the holy mosques of Mecca and Medina by the Saudi government. The road that connects the rocky stretch between the two holy cities of Mecca and Medina was also built by the Bin Laden group.

But the plan for a new tower in Dubai and the visual connection it makes in relation to New York's former Twin Towers represents a new turn in the symbolism the company embraces. It blurs the lines between Osama's actions in the name of Islam and the kinds of Islamic projects for which the company has become known.
Surely there are more appropriate ways for the bin Ladens to express their engineering and architectural genius.

Mamoun Fandy is a columnist for the two largest Arab-language dailies, Cairo-based Al Ahram and London-based Asharq Al-Awsat. A former professor of politics at Georgetown University, Dr. Fandy is senior fellow at the United States Institute of Peace in Washington, D.C.

© 2003 Independent Media Institute. All rights reserved. Reproduction by Syndication Service only.

[doc]

Let them build it.

Then we'll fly one of our planes into it.

[RJW]

All gassed up on the carrier & ready to rumble; Geronimo!

[dogchow108]

This Isn't the only major construction going on in Dubai these days- I think it was National Geographic that covered the building of a man-made palm-tree-shaped beach, actually more than one of them that will be visible from space when completed.

It seems that some elements in the Arab world are preparing for the day that oil goes bye-bye by replacing this asset with that of major tourism.

i can see the backlash already.

[Linientreu]

I simply have to support meattosser here... I totally agree with his assessment of the situation. And as far as him not being a martial artist well.... is a martial artist someone who blindly follows the media and removes himself from other people of the world by clinging to a certain nationality and views world events through a kaleidoscope of ignorance and prejudice? Or is it someone who analytically and objectively views situations and makes up his mind based on martial morals and values of honor (which are pretty similar across the board in TMA's I’d wager to say)? How can you be a martial artist when you hate, when you have no Dai Jan (big love) and make your opinions of people based on prejudice, or blanket a whole nation/part of the world by the actions of a few without looking at the big picture. All you US lovers... did you know that the US is sending representatives to elections in mainland china to make sure they are more 'democratic'? What would happen if it were the other way around? The US would have none of it, but because we can exert economical pressure we are the schoolyard bully of the world. If this country is so great why is racism and hate so prevalent here? I grew up in Germany(!) yet never saw as much hate, division, racism, prejudice and plain ignorance as I did when I moved here.

[doc]

I grew up in Germany(!) yet never saw as much hate, division, racism, prejudice and plain ignorance as I did when I moved here.

Interesting...

[lester1/2jr]

I don't think the US has the power to "make sure" the chinese elections are anything. Schoolyard bully? I think people blowing themselves up at a crowded busstop is more bullyish than asking them to not blow themselves up. I'm noit surprised you grew up in Europe. You're tired anti-US is the same crap they offer as an excuse for why France and Russia aren't players on the world stage (at all) anymore. I was kidding about him not being a martial artist, too. 1,000,000 iraqis died in the iran-iraq war. What did Germany do to stop that?